FWIW, Assault weapons now include all semi-automatic firearms

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AlexanderA said:
Introduced bills are opening gambits. They are the "maximum demands" or "wish lists" for upcoming legislation. They may be watered down in committee consideration, but they are hardly ever made stricter.

It's very telling that the antigunners would include grandfathering in their "opening gambit." Normally you would think they would reserve it as a possible later sop to gunowners. (Which, BTW, is exactly what's happening in Virginia with Gov. Northam's state-level AWB bill. No grandfathering.)

The truth of the matter is that any AWB with grandfathering is toothless, because of the huge number of such weapons already out there. This is not 1994.
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I'm not interested in their taqqiya. We know to a certainly what the ultimate goal is. Anything else is just stepping stones toward it.
 
We are in a bad place now! The anti-gun cause is now gaining more traction. Much of this, I think, is also connected to the anxiety in the country generally. The feeling of uncertainty is evident in our posts here and elsewhere. There is uncertainty about our future and general welfare. Here we are now even divided among ourselves. There are shooters out there who do not believe in a cascade effect of firearms laws. Also these people could care less for AW's. So they become anti's? Should they be attacked?

Our foremost defender as an organization has lost moral authority. Notice, the number of suggestions for alternative organizations. Everytown is getting the high ground on this one like it or not. One of the reasons for the decline in NRA membership may have had to do with embracing right wing politics and the Republican Party. You gotta own this cut many people out of the loop.The reason for the decline in membership and loss of contributions needs to be examined rationally and without name calling. That may be unpopular but it is a question that needs solid answers. Good solid information would be a blessing. Is the internal mess in the NRA and the mounting number of deaths from mass shootings combine with the malaise countrywide what this is about.

Remember: The assault weapon that took the most American lives was the 1861 Springfield.
 
CapnMac said:
Before the lock, let us remember Haynes v. US, where SCOTUS firmly asserted that criminals could not be forced to obey gun control (and that was an NFA 34 violation.
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Haynes, I believe was settled on 5th Amendment grounds as one of the last decisions of the Warren Court but was undercut to some degree when Congress changed the law as the felon claimed that to require them to register an NFA item meant that they would have to admit to being a felon in possession of a firearm. "The National Firearms Act was amended after Haynes to make it apply only to those who could lawfully possess a firearm. "

This change was upheld in U.S. v. Freed under the Burger Court where it held, "(1) The National Firearm Act's registration requirements do not implicate the Fifth Amendment's privilege against self incrimination. (2) The Act's restrictions against possession of unregistered firearms do not require specific intent." https://infogalactic.com/info/United_States_v._Freed
 
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AlexanderA said:
That isn't the point. The point is that the antigunners are tipping their hand with these introductions. We should be paying attention. It's a preview of what's going to go down in 2021, if they win in 2020.
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No, it's just what they're proposing for 2021, if they win in 2020.

And as I said everyone's already aware even before this "bill" thanks to other avenues.
 
old lady new shooter said:
I don't think we here should refer to semi-automatic rifles as "assault weapons". It's OK to use the term in quotes, or to say there is a proposed law that would classify x, y and z as "assault weapons", but *WE* should not call them that.
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There is a defined class of weapon called an assault rifle.

Assault weapon is one thing, but assault rifles are assault rifles.
 
old lady new shooter said:
I don't think we here should refer to semi-automatic rifles as "assault weapons". It's OK to use the term in quotes, or to say there is a proposed law that would classify x, y and z as "assault weapons", but *WE* should not call them that.
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I have been holding my tongue just waiting for someone with some intelligence to point this out.

As pointed out WE need to change the conversation to Modern Sporting Rifles.

WE need to stop calling them anti gun politicians and start using the description of what they are - ANTI 2nd AMENDMENT Politicians, and anti Punishment for Criminals Politicians.


My God, how on this board could this be going on?
 
Jammersix said:
There is a defined class of weapon called an assault rifle.

Assault weapon is one thing, but assault rifles are assault rifles.
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No, "assault weapon" is everything and nothing at all. It has no fixed meaning.

It can be anything from a 2.36mm Kolibri pistol to the Paris gun.

It's whatever some sociopath wants to ban at any given instant.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
Introduced bills go nowhere all the time.

Theres nothing being said in this bill that isn't being pressed in many other venues that are just as persuasive.
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Still they must be attacked with fervor. How many times has a gun control bill come up and the words "It won't pass" been uttered? I can count about a dozen in states all over the country. Hoping doesn't work.
 
Mowgli Terry said:
Our foremost defender as an organization has lost moral authority...

One of the reasons for the decline in NRA membership may have had to do with embracing right wing politics and the Republican Party.
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No, the NRA is not losing members because they "embraced right-wing politics and the Republican Party". It's due to your first sentence. They got greedy. Just like the rest of this nation, they have turned their backs on God and Biblical principles and instead embraced power and riches and pleasure.
 
AlexanderA said:
Introduced bills are opening gambits. They are the "maximum demands" or "wish lists" for upcoming legislation. They may be watered down in committee consideration, but they are hardly ever made stricter.

It's very telling that the antigunners would include grandfathering in their "opening gambit." Normally you would think they would reserve it as a possible later sop to gunowners. (Which, BTW, is exactly what's happening in Virginia with Gov. Northam's state-level AWB bill. No grandfathering.)

The truth of the matter is that any AWB with grandfathering is toothless, because of the huge number of such weapons already out there. This is not 1994.
Click to expand...

Grandfathering is just the frog in boiling water. That’s what they did in Hawaii when they outlawed handgun magazines with over 10 round capacity, then later did away with the grandfather clause. It’s just one step closer.
 
WestTexShooter said:
I have been holding my tongue just waiting for someone with some intelligence to point this out.

As pointed out WE need to change the conversation to Modern Sporting Rifles.

WE need to stop calling them anti gun politicians and start using the description of what they are - ANTI 2nd AMENDMENT Politicians, and anti Punishment for Criminals Politicians.


My God, how on this board could this be going on?
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I have been trying to get people to stop saying "gun rights" and start saying "gun owners rights." Things don't have rights. As long as we continue talking about the rights of things instead of people we are in a weak position.

Needless to say, we are still talking about "gun rights."
 
Deanimator said:
No, "assault weapon" is everything and nothing at all. It has no fixed meaning.

It can be anything from a 2.36mm Kolibri pistol to the Paris gun.

It's whatever some sociopath wants to ban at any given instant.
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Yes, I agree.

But an assault rifle is an assault rifle. By definition, by common usage, by any metric.
 
We should refer to ARs as semi auto rifles, which is what they are, but as far as the media, most non gun people, all the antis, and many of us, they'll continue to call then assault rifles.

We can never go back and stop the use of the incorrect use of the term, but we should still call them semi autos.

Many call them that through ignorance, but the antis, at least one in this thread, and the anti friendly media will continue to attempt to stir up emotion/anti gun sentiment/votes with the scary term Assault Rifle.
 
Walkalong said:
We should refer to ARs as semi auto rifles
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Exactly. In the end, all of the other attributes that make the AR uniquely "AR" is purely cosmetic. Our entire argument for the fence is that they are no more deadly, sometimes much less so, than the semi-auto that Elmer thinks is safe, if he gives up his neighbor's rights.
 
The name debate is getting old. It won't make any difference when a law stating that semi auto long arms that are magazine fed are banned. Yes, some folks like to use the term 'assault' for PR. In fact, the gun world loved to do that until recently. Look at old gun print books and magazines.

So you can post and carry on about how the correct term must be used in the ban.
 
WestTexShooter said:
I have been holding my tongue just waiting for someone with some intelligence to point this out.

As pointed out WE need to change the conversation to Modern Sporting Rifles.

WE need to stop calling them anti gun politicians and start using the description of what they are - ANTI 2nd AMENDMENT Politicians, and anti Punishment for Criminals Politicians.


My God, how on this board could this be going on?
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Agree 100% on "anti 2nd Amendment politicians".

I don't like "modern sporting rifle", it sounds too made-up. "Semi-automatic rifle" is technically correct and value-free.
 
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