Omg- SIL left her gun in the vacation rental!

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milemaker13 said:
... doesnt sound like she had it ready or even had ammo with it.. .
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If I were involved in any way in the process of 'shipping' that locked box back to an FFL in Illinois I would feel compelled to make sure myself that the firearm within is NOT LOADED. I may well be wrong, but I can't imagine that a firearm and ammunition can be legally shipped by USPS or Common Carrier with ammunition in the same package. Even doing so unknowingly could well be illegal.

I suspect dogtown tom would be able to shed some light on that aspect?
 
dogtown tom said:
Well, be perfectly clear....did you drop off these shipments at a UPS Store or at a UPS Customer Service Center? UPS policy clearly prohibits shipping firearms from a UPS Store.

As far as "not something that is hard, complicated or illegal".....I disagree and so does anyone else that has read UPS policies.
It's "hard" because UPS Customer Service Centers are often many miles away. I live in Plano, TX a city of 280,000 that's a suburb of Dallas. The nearest UPS Customer Service Center is 30 miles and a 45 minute drive from me. That ain't exactly convenient is it?

It's "complicated" because the shipper must abide by Federal law regarding interstate firearms transfers, must abide by obscure, not easily found USPS regulations, obscure UPS/FedEx policies and filter through the bad advice from USPS/FedEx/UPS counter clerks......which often could lead to a felony.

It's illegal if you ship a firearm in violation of federal law. Whether you choose USPS/FedEx/UPS doesn't change the laws regarding interstate firearms shipments.
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When I had my FFL the UPS store wasn't around (yes, I'm old). In later years, I had a Fedex terminal 8 blocks from my house. They knew what was inside the second the plugged in the shipping address. Counter lady always smiles; said they average 3 gun per day going out of there, and as many coming in.
 
dogtown tom said:
Only a small handful of states require any form of real gun registration, where every sale/trade/gift or other transfer requires permission or notification to a state agency of the transfer of possession. Giffords says its currently six states that https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/gun-owner-responsibilities/registration/
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It always sucks to find out I am not as free as I believe I am...:(

Michigan is not on this list, however every time I purchase a Handgun I must hand a copy of the sale to the State Police, within ten days. :thumbdown:

Foolishly, I thought everyone did that. I stand, corrected. Thank you.
 
Okay - this may be a dumb idea but, if this is a locked box and the property manager can't get in to it, why can't he just put it in a larger cardboard box, seal it, then ship it UPS/Fedex? He is returning property to a client without knowing what it is (unless you blab it to them) so they don't "technically" take possession of the firearm.
 
Ok. Wife says her sister spoke with management. They dropped the safe at common carrier (not sure who or where). Carrier told her this happens "all the time". Yikes. It should arrive at her local ffl shop today maybe? They will charge her a fee to get it back. Possibly xfer fee? I dont know.

I will update when its all done, hopefully with total cost.
 
There was a thread that discussed shipping a handgun to someones relative in another state. The gun had been left at the guys house when the relative went out of country IIRC.

One point brought up was if the gun was left in a locked safe that the first guy didn't have the key to, so effectively had no access to, would the gun need to be transferred back to the relative when he returned. Forget about shipping it for a moment...
Does a locked away handgun need to be transferred back?

On another similar note... say I ship my gun to an FFL in vacation state... in a locked box that I keep the key so again, no access.. can the FFL simply receive the package and give it to me when I arrive?
Of course there would be ID checks and fees paid but would it need to be transferred to me apon arrival?
 
milemaker13 said:
Does a locked away handgun need to be transferred back?
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A handgun is a handgun and being inside a locked box does not change the rules.
If the SIL was shipping it to herself, ATF regs allow her to ship via a common carrier addressed to herself in another state. No FFL required under Federal law. But....neither UPS or FedEx allow a nonlicensee to nonlicensee firearm shipment.

On another similar note... say I ship my gun to an FFL in vacation state... in a locked box that I keep the key so again, no access.. can the FFL simply receive the package and give it to me when I arrive?
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If you ship a firearm to an FFL he can transfer a rifle or shotgun to you (w/4473&NICS), but not handguns or other firearms as you are not in your state of residence. If you maintain a home in that state, he could transfer firearms other than rifles or shotguns. But........why? Take it with you in checked luggage.



Of course there would be ID checks and fees paid but would it need to be transferred to me apon arrival?
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It would be like any other firearm transfer by the dealer.
 
Hey hey just cool it a bit eh?
dogtown tom said:
If the SIL was shipping it to herself, ATF regs allow her to ship via a common carrier addressed to herself in another state. No FFL required under Federal law. But....neither UPS or FedEx allow a nonlicensee to nonlicensee firearm shipment.
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I don't have the full details on the package, this is really all just hearsay but I have to assume this is exactly what they did. The shipping agent claimed this happens all the time so I assume he knew both of these things. So he likely shipped it to her in care of the gun shop. Yes?
 
She’s fortunate to get it back—and so easily. I would have made a trip to pick it up if it was an item of much value.
 
I started to read through this thread, which started on Wednesday, and then rushed through it to get to the conclusion to find out what happened -- and I am glad it got back home, details of how that happened aside for the moment.

I think it is easy to forget even important things, like guns -- the story of the cop who leaves his or her Glock on the hook in the stall being a common example. I think with guns we need to double and triple check ourselves, and not rely on muscle memory or habit - both because it can be very bad if guns get in the wrong hands AND because there are those out there waiting and watching for gun owners to screw up so we can be tarred and feathered publicly.
 
If the dealer received a firearm and did not enter into his book, and then properly transferring it to the person receiving according to federal and state laws, then yes, he has probably stepped afoul of the law, unless there was a change in law since I last worked an FFL, which was several years ago. However, I am not an expert in transferring firearms and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, either.
 
HighRoadRover said:
I started to read through this thread, which started on Wednesday, and then rushed through it to get to the conclusion to find out what happened -- and I am glad it got back home, details of how that happened aside for the moment.

I think it is easy to forget even important things, like guns -- the story of the cop who leaves his or her Glock on the hook in the stall being a common example. I think with guns we need to double and triple check ourselves, and not rely on muscle memory or habit - both because it can be very bad if guns get in the wrong hands AND because there are those out there waiting and watching for gun owners to screw up so we can be tarred and feathered publicly.
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I agree. I'm glad she got it back. Owning and carrying a firearm comes with grave responsibilities. My guess is she learned a valuable lesson from this and she won't ever forget it again.
 
So, the hotel boxed it up, mailed it to an FFL, and then he just turned it over with no paperwork. Yikes! How many laws/regulations were broken.

I use a small handgun safe when we travel, and often have it cabled to the bed frame. If I was to leave it, then the other factor is that mine would be loaded, with one in the pipe. In that case, I would contact local law enforcement, have them retrieve the gun safe, and then follow whatever policy/procedure they would dictate for the return of my firearm, even if it meant that I would mail them the key in order to remove it from the safe and clear it.
 
I am very forgetful. When I do things like that I put something I will be sure to need (car keys, shoes, NOT phone) with anything I might leave. That way I will be sure to take it. Since my firearm is my edc it would be in my pocket, in my shoe or attached to my car keys.
 
dogtown tom said:
If the SIL was shipping it to herself, ATF regs allow her to ship via a common carrier addressed to herself in another state. No FFL required under Federal law.
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When would this be applicable but not a crime?

Btw- I am not arguing in anyway... we all agree she made a grave mistake. Most of us agree she should have gone back. Im interested in better understanding the situation. Its a weird situation at that- because there shouldnt be an issue sending personal property back to the owner, except the tangled web of laws designed to thwart either crime or liberty (depending on viewpoint).
 
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