Results 7.62x39 AR and Cast

BigBore45 · Sep 15, 2019

So i have been working on this for upcoming deer season.
Ar-15 built by me.
Cal. 7.62x39R
16" barrel 1-10 twist

Lee 160-312
15.5 BHN
3 coats of Hitek #2
Gas Checked
Sized to .3095
170gr. On the money with gc and coating
Seated to crimp groove

Hornady Brass
Ginex SRP
21.4gr IMR 4227

2068 FPS 5 shot average with 30fps deviation.

Shoots well. Feeds 100% smooth cycle and zero pressure signs. Under 1" groups at 100 yards off a front sand bag several times. ZERO leading even with 10 rounds rapid fire. Worked this load up the last few weekends. Then went to casting this bullet in bulk quantity. As it also shoots great out of a .308 win at 2400fps.

joneb · Sep 15, 2019

Nice work, is this from a Ruger American Ranch?

BigBore45 · Sep 15, 2019

joneb said:
Nice work, is this from a Ruger American Ranch?

AR-15 built by me

Bfh_auto · Sep 20, 2019

Nice load. That's running with jacketed 30-30 170s.
How does that bullet do on wet newspaper? I'd be a little worried using that pointy of a cast bullet without shooting it into something to see the expansion.
That being said, my experience on cast bullets and killing things is limited to one deer.

BlankRow · Sep 24, 2019

That AR build sounds like a fun project. Did you buy a complete upper, and if so who was the manufacturer?

BigBore45 · Sep 24, 2019

Bfh_auto said:
Nice load. That's running with jacketed 30-30 170s.
How does that bullet do on wet newspaper? I'd be a little worried using that pointy of a cast bullet without shooting it into something to see the expansion.
That being said, my experience on cast bullets and killing things is limited to one deer.

Testing is next on the list. However I use to run another lee bullet very similar and it had great expansion.

BigBore45 · Sep 24, 2019

BlankRow said:
That AR build sounds like a fun project. Did you buy a complete upper, and if so who was the manufacturer?

I built it all piece by piece. The barrel was from midway. I dont recall the manufacturer I'd guess Wilson.

Bfh_auto · Sep 24, 2019

BigBore45 said:
Testing is next on the list. However I use to run another lee bullet very similar and it had great expansion.

That's good. I like seeing other people's experience. It helps me get some insight to use when I finally try something.

mstreddy · Sep 26, 2019

Nice... I recently cast some 30 cals from a castboolits group buy NOE 165 gr XCB. I haven't had a chance to load them yet. I want to try them in 308 Win, 300 Blackout, 30-06 and was wondering how they would do in 7.62x39. Besides the SKS and AK, I have an AR-15 upper from Radical Firearms in 7.62x39. I call it ARSki...

armoredman · Sep 27, 2019

Have you tried any other bullets? I got excellent results with the 129 gr NOE mold, powder coated in my CZ 527M. I am really thinking hard about getting a 7.62x39mm upper as well, just to have fun with it. That is reallt excellent results with the heavier Lee bullet, very well done.

forrest r · Sep 27, 2019

Very nice!!!

Don't know why more people don't use cast/coated bullets in their rifles. I like that same bullet as well and use it in a 308w.

BigBore45 · Sep 28, 2019

armoredman said:
Have you tried any other bullets? I got excellent results with the 129 gr NOE mold, powder coated in my CZ 527M. I am really thinking hard about getting a 7.62x39mm upper as well, just to have fun with it. That is reallt excellent results with the heavier Lee bullet, very well done.

I haven't tried anything lighter. I wanted to stay around 2000 fps an retain maximum energy for the caliber. Anything faster is hard to get accuracy from a lead bullet without sacrificing bullet expansion on game in my experience.

rbernie · Sep 28, 2019

I’d be interested in learning how well the bullet performed on impact, if you have the chance to update this thread later...

BigBore45 · Sep 28, 2019

rbernie said:
I’d be interested in learning how well the bullet performed on impact, if you have the chance to update this thread later...

I will.

whughett · Sep 28, 2019

Wonder how that would perform in a Ruger Mini 30. My Mini ain’t all that great for accuracy with standard military rounds.

whughett · Sep 28, 2019

BigBore45 said:
So i have been working on this for upcoming deer season.
Ar-15 built by me.
Cal. 7.62x39R
16" barrel 1-10 twist

Lee 160-312
15.5 BHN
3 coats of Hitek #2
Gas Checked
Sized to .3095
170gr. On the money with gc and coating
Seated to crimp groove

Hornady Brass
Ginex SRP
21.4gr IMR 4227

2068 FPS 5 shot average with 30fps deviation.

Shoots well. Feeds 100% smooth cycle and zero pressure signs. Under 1" groups at 100 yards off a front sand bag several times. ZERO leading even with 10 rounds rapid fire. Worked this load up the last few weekends. Then went to casting this bullet in bulk quantity. As it also shoots great out of a .308 win at 2400fps.

Question on the bullet coating.
As a bullet caster and heavy shooter I’ve wanted for some time to be able to cast bullets for 9MM. I’ve never had any luck they all seem to lead. So I’ve just taken to using Berry’s Plated Bullets for 9MM and .380.
Never heard of Hi-Tec coatings so Googled it, read all the instructions for the process. Whew, how long did it take to get the process down to where it’s manageable. Safety issues, failure rate, persnickety oven temps, yikes. Your 30 calibers do look good. In your opinion would it work on the tiny 9MM or 380. Do you use the ready mix or the dry. Now I may only shoot 500 rounds of 9MM in a season, late October November and December when hand gun shooting moves indoors. So is it worth it.
Summer months up North and Winter months in Florida most shooting is black powder. Saving money is not the issue,I’d just rather roll my own, including the bullet making, the whole process is a hobby onto its self as you know. So should I or shouldn’t I. LOL. New adventure. Tips, suggestions. ??

BigBore45 · Sep 28, 2019

whughett said:
Question on the bullet coating.
As a bullet caster and heavy shooter I’ve wanted for some time to be able to cast bullets for 9MM. I’ve never had any luck they all seem to lead. So I’ve just taken to using Berry’s Plated Bullets for 9MM and .380.
Never heard of Hi-Tec coatings so Googled it, read all the instructions for the process. Whew, how long did it take to get the process down to where it’s manageable. Safety issues, failure rate, persnickety oven temps, yikes. Your 30 calibers do look good. In your opinion would it work on the tiny 9MM or 380. Do you use the ready mix or the dry. Now I may only shoot 500 rounds of 9MM in a season, late October November and December when hand gun shooting moves indoors. So is it worth it.
Summer months up North and Winter months in Florida most shooting is black powder. Saving money is not the issue,I’d just rather roll my own, including the bullet making, the whole process is a hobby onto its self as you know. So should I or shouldn’t I. LOL. New adventure. Tips, suggestions. ??

Its fairly easy. I use the powder and mix my own. Go to castboolits forum for a wealth of knowledge on coated bullets.

You might also consider doing PC on your pistol bullets. It's way easier that hitek. It works well up to 1600 fps. I use a clear made by a member on castboolits that is really good PC powder. Very simple process with his powder. Very good results and I also like the look of a lead bullet so the clear is cool to me.

You can look me up on castboolits forum. Same name as here.

If you want to see if hitek will cure your lead problem in 9mm. Go to Missouri Bullet Company web site and order some commercial hitek coated sample pack of 100 for your 9mm and try them out.

forrest r · Sep 29, 2019

More than most likely you have an underlaying issue with your 9mm/lead bullet loads. More pointedly the dies your using & the bullet's diameter.

Hi-tec coating ='s wet/chemicals polyurethane based coating
PC ='s dry powder polyester based coating

Myself I prefer the dry pc coating. 500+ round range session with pc'd bullets in a 1911 chambered in 9mm.

No leading, a look in that same bbl

No brushing needed, simply 1 wet patch (hope's #9) and 1 dry patch later. The bbl is clean

That 500+ round range session was with a general plinking load, nothing hot. General plinking load ='s 125gr 8bhn/9bhn bullet that is pc'd & sized to .358". 5.0gr of wst for powder pushes that bullet and the end result is 1000+fps load in that 5" bbl'd 9mm.

forrest r · Sep 29, 2019

Alloys are always interesting when it comes to rifle bullets. 1st the alloy has to withstand the rotational torque's of the load on the bullets body & holding the rifling's. It also has to bump up in the freebore of the chamber while not distorting the bullets base & bullet body alignment. This is why it's easier to find a 1600fps/1700fps load that is accurate compared to a 2000+fps load. Years ago (2012/2013) I was interested in pc'd bullets so I started testing pc'd bullets in a 308w. As I upped the velocities I played with different alloys. These recovered bullets show that the alloys were brittle and the bullets nose shattered. That 230gr/2300fps bullets was a 50,000+psi load and that long skinny nose of that bullet bend, excellent!!! Only took 8 or 9 tries to come up with a alloy that was soft enough for the bullet's nose to expand/mushroom/deform at high velocities.

Finding a good alloy is 1 thing, finding the right bullet/bullet design for that alloy is another. The lee bullet the op is using has an extremely strong bullet nose design which stops nose slump at hv.

Others have brought up the hm-2 bullet, it was also designed for hv 1st and foremost. It is very close in design to the lee tl312-160-2r

The problem with these types of bullet designs is that your to get a strong short pointy nose to flatten/mushroom/deform. These bullet designs take an extremely soft alloy to get the noses on them to deform. That soft alloy doesn't do very well at higher velocities. Your better off using these types of bullets with hard alloys and hv loads, that's what they were designed for. The lee tl312-160-2r cast with a 14/15bhn alloy water dropped & age hardened (+/- 20bhn) sized to .310". 10-shot moa group @ 100yds doing 2000fps+

Same bullet doing ladder tests, 10-shot group @ 100yds 1 1/2moa 2679fps

I wish lee would make a flat nosed version of that tl312-160-2r bullet. Heck they have the 309-113-f & 309-120r bullets. Same bullet body, just 1 has a flat nose, the other round. Same for the 309-150f/309-160r and the 309-170f/309-180r bullets. Any more I use these 30cal bullets for hunting, the bottom left is a 140gr hp or a 150gr fn that hits hard, real hard.

Cast bullet nose slump is real. Same bullet design from a 2-cavity cramer mold. 1 cavity casts a sp nosed bullet and the other a fn hp nosed bullet (the 180gr bullet pictured above).

I always shot/tested loads with both bullets at the same time doing head to head testing. Any time I tested loads that were over 2100fps/2200fps. The results were always the same, the sp bullet's groups opened up. Typical 10-shot groups @ 100yds with both bullets doing over 2200fps.

Anyway big differences between a bullet designed for hunting and a bullet designed for hv. Same with alloys, a hunting alloy is typically too soft for a hv load. The trade off is finding a good alloy/bullet design combo that doesn't give up too much velocity.

BigBore45 · Sep 29, 2019

forrest r said:
Alloys are always interesting when it comes to rifle bullets. 1st the alloy has to withstand the rotational torque's of the load on the bullets body & holding the rifling's. It also has to bump up in the freebore of the chamber while not distorting the bullets base & bullet body alignment. This is why it's easier to find a 1600fps/1700fps load that is accurate compared to a 2000+fps load. Years ago (2012/2013) I was interested in pc'd bullets so I started testing pc'd bullets in a 308w. As I upped the velocities I played with different alloys. These recovered bullets show that the alloys were brittle and the bullets nose shattered. That 230gr/2300fps bullets was a 50,000+psi load and that long skinny nose of that bullet bend, excellent!!! Only took 8 or 9 tries to come up with a alloy that was soft enough for the bullet's nose to expand/mushroom/deform at high velocities.
View attachment 862581

Finding a good alloy is 1 thing, finding the right bullet/bullet design for that alloy is another. The lee bullet the op is using has an extremely strong bullet nose design which stops nose slump at hv.
View attachment 862582

Others have brought up the hm-2 bullet, it was also designed for hv 1st and foremost. It is very close in design to the lee tl312-160-2r
View attachment 862583

The problem with these types of bullet designs is that your to get a strong short pointy nose to flatten/mushroom/deform. These bullet designs take an extremely soft alloy to get the noses on them to deform. That soft alloy doesn't do very well at higher velocities. Your better off using these types of bullets with hard alloys and hv loads, that's what they were designed for. The lee tl312-160-2r cast with a 14/15bhn alloy water dropped & age hardened (+/- 20bhn) sized to .310". 10-shot moa group @ 100yds doing 2000fps+
View attachment 862584

Same bullet doing ladder tests, 10-shot group @ 100yds 1 1/2moa 2679fps
View attachment 862585

I wish lee would make a flat nosed version of that tl312-160-2r bullet. Heck they have the 309-113-f & 309-120r bullets. Same bullet body, just 1 has a flat nose, the other round. Same for the 309-150f/309-160r and the 309-170f/309-180r bullets. Any more I use these 30cal bullets for hunting, the bottom left is a 140gr hp or a 150gr fn that hits hard, real hard.
View attachment 862586

Cast bullet nose slump is real. Same bullet design from a 2-cavity cramer mold. 1 cavity casts a sp nosed bullet and the other a fn hp nosed bullet (the 180gr bullet pictured above).
View attachment 862587

I always shot/tested loads with both bullets at the same time doing head to head testing. Any time I tested loads that were over 2100fps/2200fps. The results were always the same, the sp bullet's groups opened up. Typical 10-shot groups @ 100yds with both bullets doing over 2200fps.View attachment 862588

Anyway big differences between a bullet designed for hunting and a bullet designed for hv. Same with alloys, a hunting alloy is typically too soft for a hv load. The trade off is finding a good alloy/bullet design combo that doesn't give up too much velocity.

Hey good write up. I use the lee 309-160 with great performance with the same exact setup as I'm using here. I believe I'll get good expansion with this aswell. We will see very soon. 15.5 bhn is plenty soft at 2000 fps for expansion I believe. If anything it's still at 30 cal hole in the heart with some bullet yaw mixed in. I'll post detailed results!

35 Whelen · Sep 30, 2019

BigBore45 said:
So i have been working on this for upcoming deer season.
Ar-15 built by me.
Cal. 7.62x39R
16" barrel 1-10 twist

Lee 160-312
15.5 BHN
3 coats of Hitek #2
Gas Checked
Sized to .3095
170gr. On the money with gc and coating
Seated to crimp groove

Hornady Brass
Ginex SRP
21.4gr IMR 4227

2068 FPS 5 shot average with 30fps deviation.

Shoots well. Feeds 100% smooth cycle and zero pressure signs. Under 1" groups at 100 yards off a front sand bag several times. ZERO leading even with 10 rounds rapid fire. Worked this load up the last few weekends. Then went to casting this bullet in bulk quantity. As it also shoots great out of a .308 win at 2400fps.

Very nice shooting and interesting post!

. I built a 7.62 AR last year as well. Haven't shot any cast through it but my first 5-shot group at 200 yds. before sight adjustments impressed me, and this was with ordinary Monarch ammunition-

I would strongly suggest you consider a bullet with a meplat or even a cast HP. An alloy with good tin content makes for bullets that expand well. I used a bullet (205 gr. out of a .303 British) with a profile similar to the one you pictured on a doe a few years ago. Although I shot her right through the lungs, it was a slow death.

Keep us post on your loads.

ETA-
After I posted this I remembered when my oldest daughter started deer hunting I cast/loaded a 172 gr. RNHP from a Lyman 311291 HP mould, to a MV of 1850 fps. I forget the exact alloy, but it shot very, very well from my little Mauser Scout Rifle and between she and I we must've killed a half dozen deer with that load and rifle.

I never saw any signs of the bullet "blowing up", yet is was a fairly destructive bullet-

35W

BigBore45 · Jan 26, 2020

A bit late on the follow up. Hit a whitetail doe at 180~yards. Went well. Bang flop. Good exit hole with plenty of damage. Could not recover bullet.
Definitely have a true winner in this setup.

GooseGestapo · Jan 26, 2020

I have and use that same bullet mold.
I use it extensively in a .300BO upper at similar speeds.

However, for hunting, I use the Lee 150gr FNGC at .311”.
I’ve killed quite a few deer, and a couple of pigs with it from .30/30’s and .30/06.
With the .30/30, my favorite load is 30.0 Reloader 15 for 2,200fps. .30/06 gets 24.0gr #2400.
Never recovered a bullet, but excellent wound tracks, The FNGC feeds reliably and shoots accurately from my AR15 upper.

The only deer I shot with the 160gr Ptd GC’s was with 24.0gr #2400. Found scant blood trail, never found deer.

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