I would like a small revolver

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Orkanen

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Øvre Snertingdal, Norway
I'm searching for a suitable revolver for competition purposes. There are of course limits.
  • It must be smaller than 200 x 150 x 40 mm and weigh no more than 1,000 g.
  • Trigger weigh should be above 1.360 g..
  • Cylinder should have a capacity of at least 5 rounds
  • Accuracy is preferred, longest range in competition is 70 m.
  • I start each round with the gun out of holster, ready to fire and pointing down, thus, shaved sights or hammers are not required.
  • Low recoil has its advantages, shortest shooting time is 6 seconds.
Beyond that, I'm mostly confined to what's available here in Norway, with the most common brands like Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Colt, Ruger, Taurus, Webley, Korth, Manurhin, Kimber. Other brands may also be found, but there's always a question about spare parts.

Availability is very limited. I've requested someone at the local gun shop to keep a look out and notify me whenever something suitable passes by. I also keep tabs on our version of Craigs list, Finn. Today's vast sortiment is found here. In other words, not very impressive.

What should I look out for, what can I expect, where can I go wrong?

I was today offered an unused S & W 640 38s from 1990. It requires lots of TLC and perhaps a Hogue grip to become competition worthy, trigger weight presently being around 3 kg. I'll get to test it later this week together with a Ruger GP 101 in good condition.
SW640.jpg
 
That overall length limits you to barrels under 3” (76.2mm) for the most part. A Ruger SP101 in .327 magnum with 2.25” (57mm) barrel would get you 6 rounds vs 5 of .38sp, and recoil would be very manageable if shooting .32 H&R. No idea if this model is available in your country.
 
The fairly new S&W Model 66 with a 69 cm barrel looks to be what you are looking for. It holds 6 rounds and is a .357 Magnum so you can shoot many .38 Special rounds without forcing early wear. It weighs 949.7g so the recoil will feel light when firing .38 Special ammo. The M66 is just under the 200mm limit @198mm.
 
I'm searching for a suitable revolver for competition purposes. There are of course limits.
  • It must be smaller than 200 x 150 x 40 mm and weigh no more than 1,000 g.
  • Trigger weigh should be above 1.360 g..
  • Cylinder should have a capacity of at least 5 rounds
  • Accuracy is preferred, longest range in competition is 70 m.
  • I start each round with the gun out of holster, ready to fire and pointing down, thus, shaved sights or hammers are not required.
  • Low recoil has its advantages, shortest shooting time is 6 seconds.
Beyond that, I'm mostly confined to what's available here in Norway, with the most common brands like Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Colt, Ruger, Taurus, Webley, Korth, Manurhin, Kimber. Other brands may also be found, but there's always a question about spare parts.

Availability is very limited. I've requested someone at the local gun shop to keep a look out and notify me whenever something suitable passes by. I also keep tabs on our version of Craigs list, Finn. Today's vast sortiment is found here. In other words, not very impressive.

What should I look out for, what can I expect, where can I go wrong?

I was today offered an unused S & W 640 38s from 1990. It requires lots of TLC and perhaps a Hogue grip to become competition worthy, trigger weight presently being around 3 kg. I'll get to test it later this week together with a Ruger GP 101 in good condition.
View attachment 864088
Those prices are insane!!
 
The problem with the 640 is that it’s a shrouded hammer design, so you cannot thumb back the hammer to shoot in single action mode. The hammer throw is ver short, so you cannot make it very light or you will have light strikes.

I not familiar with metric sizes, but you should try get a larger frame revolver.

Truth be told, given the prices of used guns in Norway, I’d recommend you see if a 2.5” barrel MR73 is small enough and buy another one. They’re a million times better than any S&W or Dan Wesson.
 
I once owned a SW60 3" with adjustable sights that in my mind is closest to the requirement you describe. It and its conventional rifling did not have any issue with barrel leading but my newer 60 Pro had to settle for jacketed or plated bullets. The guns were too valuable to be shot infrequently, so I sold them and now just use my 3+" SP101 for either lite .357 or 38+p.
 
I would look at the S&W line and see what you want to spend and what you can get where you live . I don't know metric so I will let you do the conversion , top on my list where you live would be the S&W 986 .
caliber - 9mm
barrel - 2.5"
weight - 31.4 oz
overall length - 7.5"

A lot of options in a short barrel revolver . All will need trigger work for competition .
 
stevekozak said " Those prices are insane!!"

At today's exchange rate, a Norwegian krone is approx. 11 US cents. I didn't find the prices terribly far off on that site.

Keep in mind the old axiom of supply and demand, we in the US generally have a larger pool of guns to chose from, so somewhat lower prices.
 
the third one down, a S&W 686 .357-38 special. S&W model 10 in 38 special.
 

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The problem with the 640 is that it’s a shrouded hammer design, so you cannot thumb back the hammer to shoot in single action mode. The hammer throw is very short, so you cannot make it very light or you will have light strikes.
That rules out the 640. I highly appreciate your feedback on this.

I not familiar with metric sizes, but you should try get a larger frame revolver.
Maximum measurements in Imperial are 7.87 x 5.9 x 1.57 inches and 2.2 lbs
While I would benefit from reference to a system of measurement used by those nations that have put a man on the Moon.
Werner von Braun was German, onboard computers calculated in metric and displayed values in Imperial measures.

Those prices are insane!!
Being a Norwegian citizen seems to be an acquired taste. Scenery is good though.

That overall length limits you to barrels under 3” (76.2mm) for the most part. A Ruger SP101 in .327 magnum with 2.25” (57mm) barrel would get you 6 rounds vs 5 of .38sp, and recoil would be very manageable if shooting .32 H&R. No idea if this model is available in your country.
I've tried finding a decent .32 long or similar for a while, being minutes late for an unused late -60's 3" S&W 31. Several use that calibre because of low recoil
A Taurus 605 in 3 inch is what I use and highly recommend.
Certainly a weapon I'll need to take a look at. 7.5" total length is close to max limit, giving it a relatively long sight line. The reviews I've so far read recommend it.
Truth be told, given the prices of used guns in Norway, I’d recommend you see if a 2.5” barrel MR73 is small enough and buy another one. They’re a million times better than any S&W or Dan Wesson.
Manurhin has a Gendarmerie version with 2.75" barrel with total length of 199 mm, or if you will, 7.83". See PDF. Are they the ones with fixed sights? If I'm allowed to specify barrel length in order, I could go for the MR-32 with a stretched rear sight. That's yet another inch by itself. Wife keeps telling me she loves me, but does the love me enough for me to buy another Manurhin?
The fairly new S&W Model 66 with a 69 cm barrel looks to be what you are looking for. It holds 6 rounds and is a .357 Magnum so you can shoot many .38 Special rounds without forcing early wear. It weighs 949.7g so the recoil will feel light when firing .38 Special ammo. The M66 is just under the 200mm limit @198mm.
I think the S&W Model 66 Combat Magnum, using 38 spl loads, would be just about ideal, given availability and affordability.
Also a gun I'll need to investigate. With S&W you usually know what to expect.
 
That Ruger will be hard to beat for longevity. Good luck in your search.
I've been on and off about Ruger because of feedback from others, but still trying to keep an open mind. A friend of mine has a Blackhawk that keeps falling apart, particularly the 2 screws behind the hammer. I don't know what's wrong with it and he won't discuss it.
I once owned a SW60 3" with adjustable sights that in my mind is closest to the requirement you describe. It and its conventional rifling did not have any issue with barrel leading but my newer 60 Pro had to settle for jacketed or plated bullets. The guns were too valuable to be shot infrequently, so I sold them and now just use my 3+" SP101 for either lite .357 or 38+p.
It sounds like your newer revolver has a slightly larger bore then the old one. I get leading through the breach on my Manurhin, even with .358 projectiles, the cylinders measuring .357 and barrel .354. HPWC barely leave any residue, but they are hard to come by and expensive. )-:b I stick to 148 gr DEWC for now, but testing 105gr SWC, preparing for a shorter gun.
I would look at the S&W line and see what you want to spend and what you can get where you live . I don't know metric so I will let you do the conversion , top on my list where you live would be the S&W 986 .
caliber - 9mm
barrel - 2.5"
weight - 31.4 oz
overall length - 7.5"

A lot of options in a short barrel revolver . All will need trigger work for competition .
Short cylinder is good, giving more room for grip and barrel. 9 mm ammo is usually cheap, going almost even to reloading spent brass. Still, switching hammer springs to reach that trigger weight and I'll end up only able to fire Federal primers.
the third one down, a S&W 686 .357-38 special. S&W model 10 in 38 special.
I got to try one of my mates' 10 a while back, so far back I barely knew how to handle it. It lit a spark in me, a desire to broaden my horizon, first stop being buying a decent revolver, next stop finding a small one. Next step is finding one that isn't ruined by "expert" gunsmiths. The 586 and 686 are great guns. I'll have to chew a bit on that one.
 
I've been on and off about Ruger because of feedback from others, but still trying to keep an open mind. A friend of mine has a Blackhawk that keeps falling apart, particularly the 2 screws behind the hammer. I don't know what's wrong with it and he won't discuss it.

It sounds like your newer revolver has a slightly larger bore then the old one. I get leading through the breach on my Manurhin, even with .358 projectiles, the cylinders measuring .357 and barrel .354. HPWC barely leave any residue, but they are hard to come by and expensive. )-:b I stick to 148 gr DEWC for now, but testing 105gr SWC, preparing for a shorter gun.

Short cylinder is good, giving more room for grip and barrel. 9 mm ammo is usually cheap, going almost even to reloading spent brass. Still, switching hammer springs to reach that trigger weight and I'll end up only able to fire Federal primers.

I got to try one of my mates' 10 a while back, so far back I barely knew how to handle it. It lit a spark in me, a desire to broaden my horizon, first stop being buying a decent revolver, next stop finding a small one. Next step is finding one that isn't ruined by "expert" gunsmiths. The 586 and 686 are great guns. I'll have to chew a bit on that one.
The newer one has ECM rifling, which is the root of the leading problem. The gun simply was not intended for lead bullets, and that's fine. It was a great shooter with XTPs. Those who disagree with my conclusions might want to save it for another thread. I am just responding to being quoted.
 
Curious what is the name of the competition your competing in? I'd like to read the rules and course of fire.
In Sweden, Denmark and Norway, we have a competition called "Feltpistol", or field pistol. I made a short description here, briefly mentioning classes. The competition usually goes as follows: You start at one range with a group of others, the person in charge announces the rules of the range, calls for loading, fire, end of fire, check of weapons and put away. Points are counted one per hit target and one per hit, and with 6 targets at one range you get up to 12 points with regular guns and up to 10 with small guns and Magnums, firing only 5 shots. You then move on to next range and repeat.
Stamplass 2.jpg
A typical target setup with 2 target groups. Here, you'd be walking with 5 others, you shoot at your assigned targets within the allocated time frame, with this setup, probably a 12 second limit, targets look like they're set at 15 m and 40 m. Only the black counts as hits.
Stamplass 3.jpg
Footing can be great, can be terrible, you stand in snow, mud, sand or on rocks. You shoot uphill or downhill, one hand, two hand hold and so on.
I have a sample result list here in PDF format for you to enjoy.

Targets used can be all shapes and sizes with minimum size 1 x 1 cm per metre away from shooter. Some targets move, some appear and disappear. It's up to whomever arranges the event to set it up as difficult as they want.

All approved events are announced here. You turn up, do your thing, win fame and glory and go home.
 
That rules out the 640. I highly appreciate your feedback on this.

I carry two .357 640's S&W's when I ride my motorcycle. I chose them as they allow me to fire while they are still in my pocket. They are very good for self defense, but their accuracy is not good beyond 15 feet.

I suggested the Manurhin because in Norway you can buy a Manurhin cheaper than we can in the US, but pay extremely high prices for American manufactured guns. But perhaps it's better if you buy an S&W and keep your wife :rofl:


S&W 640-1 2.JPG
 
The newer one has ECM rifling, which is the root of the leading problem.
I highly appreciate this kind of input, as I'm already loading my own ammo. Loading with mantled projectiles isn't a problem though.
I carry two .357 640's S&W's when I ride my motorcycle.
I take it it's pretty crazy in your neck of the woods. The closest I get is placing weapons in one saddle bag and ammo in the other when heading off to some event.
I suggested the Manurhin because in Norway you can buy a Manurhin cheaper than we can in the US, but pay extremely high prices for American manufactured guns. But perhaps it's better if you buy an S&W and keep your wife :rofl:
It's a good suggestion, and highly tempting to pursue. I'll of course have to ask if Chapuis Armes are willing to make me an MR-32 to suit my desires, then take it from there. And hopefully, the value of Norwegian currency will return to former glory in time for monetary transaction, making it less dear. With two variants of the best revolvers ever made, I'll never want another revolver ever again.

In one hand, two Manurhins, in the other, happy wife and kids. Tough choice. Perhaps a Taurus or a S&W isn't so bad after all.

I noticed that no one has so far suggested .22 calibre weapons. I'd assume there are good reasons for it, like they're not as easy to tune as centre fire revolvers.
 
I would recommend a Ruger 3" LCRx357. It meets your criteria weighing in at just over 600 grams. It measures 190 mm in length and 147 mm in height. It has a 76 mm barrel with adjustable rear sights so you can easily dial it in to the bullet weight you're shooting. Coupled with 38Spcl ammo and light bullets in the 80 - 90 grain range..the heft would keep recoil at a minimum and it should do well in your competition.
 
In Sweden, Denmark and Norway, we have a competition called "Feltpistol", or field pistol. I made a short description here, briefly mentioning classes. The competition usually goes as follows: You start at one range with a group of others, the person in charge announces the rules of the range, calls for loading, fire, end of fire, check of weapons and put away. Points are counted one per hit target and one per hit, and with 6 targets at one range you get up to 12 points with regular guns and up to 10 with small guns and Magnums, firing only 5 shots. You then move on to next range and repeat.
View attachment 864266
A typical target setup with 2 target groups. Here, you'd be walking with 5 others, you shoot at your assigned targets within the allocated time frame, with this setup, probably a 12 second limit, targets look like they're set at 15 m and 40 m. Only the black counts as hits.
View attachment 864268
Footing can be great, can be terrible, you stand in snow, mud, sand or on rocks. You shoot uphill or downhill, one hand, two hand hold and so on.
I have a sample result list here in PDF format for you to enjoy.

Targets used can be all shapes and sizes with minimum size 1 x 1 cm per metre away from shooter. Some targets move, some appear and disappear. It's up to whomever arranges the event to set it up as difficult as they want.

All approved events are announced here. You turn up, do your thing, win fame and glory and go home.

That sounds like a great competition and a lot of fun. :cool:
 
I would recommend a Ruger 3" LCRx357. It meets your criteria weighing in at just over 600 grams. It measures 190 mm in length and 147 mm in height. It has a 76 mm barrel with adjustable rear sights so you can easily dial it in to the bullet weight you're shooting. Coupled with 38Spcl ammo and light bullets in the 80 - 90 grain range..the heft would keep recoil at a minimum and it should do well in your competition.
I've so far stuck to 3.2 gr of Vihtavuori N320 coupled with 148 gr DEWC, set so they barely stick out. They seem sufficiently accurate for my usage, going great in my MR-73. Someone at the club recommend I switch to 105 gr SWC, with 1.8 gr N320, set equally deep. I've loaded a couple with varying powder loads and will give them a go next time I'm at the range. The Ruger LCR seems to be of hammerless design. Does its hammer mass equal that of the S & W 640, making decent trigger weight more difficult to achieve? I load with Federal primers but even they need a minimum impact to ignite.
That sounds like a great competition and a lot of fun. :cool:
I think so. You're welcome to come join if you want. (-:b I'll have to ask how foreigners can enter our competitions, due to unique shooting identity numbers. You get one when joining a shooting club here, I'll have to find out if you also need the weapons safety course to participate. We follow strict rules of conduct around firearms, something the course is meant to prepare us for. Also, see the Police website on bringing weapons in and out of Norway.

Which small revolver would you recommend?
 
I noticed that no one has so far suggested .22 calibre weapons. I'd assume there are good reasons for it, like they're not as easy to tune as centre fire revolvers.

I think everyone thought you wanted a centerfire handgun.

If a .22 LR will work for you I would recommend the S&W Model 63. I do not own one yet but all of my friends that have them just love them.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-63

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/2/17/smith-wesson-model-63/

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/162634 - Model 63 .22 LR.pdf

Here is a listing of specifications sheets for all Smith & Wesson firearms. When you click revolvers please know that they are not in numerical order.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/dealer-resources/sw-product-spec-sheets

I cannot find information on the height of the Model 63 but it is a J Frame so that should not be a problem and changing the grips would definitely bring it into your required height.

Some more info on the Model 63:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/61749/redirect

https://www.gun-tests.com/issues/10...good-22-lr-double-action-revolver-4648-1.html

https://www.gunblast.com/SW-63.htm

I hope this helps.
 
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