Nazi vs. Red Flag Law

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It's not merely a Nazi group he's a member of, it's a terrorist group or on the brink of being one. From Wiki:

"The organization's aim is to violently overthrow the federal government of the United States via terrorism and guerrilla warfare tactics. Since 2017, the organization has been linked to eight killings and several violent hate crimes, including assaults, rape and multiple cases of kidnapping and torture."
 
It'a kind of vague, says investigating possible threats this moron made. Doesn't sound like a crime unless he actually made a threat and they can prove it. While i find his beliefs wrong and sick i don't think anyone has the right to disarm anyone who hasn't been convicted of a crime. As disgusting as this guy is he has the right to think and say whatever he wants, once he assaults someone (which i would think would be inevitable if he is the deranged psycho they say he is) pick him up and deal with his weapons legally. Someday they may decide that something like being against same sex marriage due to your religion is a dangerous belief and you must be disarmed because of it. The intent of the first amendment is to allow us to not be prosecuted for what we say no matter how wrong it is, this is a slippery slope - disarm the neonazi cause you dislike his politics and maybe next year they dont like your politics. Charge the guy with something or leave him alone. I would find it very suprising if he's a 100% law abiding citizen who is misguided. Maybe someone should tell him that good americans fought against nazis, they were our enemy and if you support the USA it makes no sense that you could embrace nazi ideals, they are opposites. Oh well.
 
sharkman said:
I think this guy is more a more sympathetic example of the problems with red flag laws

https://www.westernjournal.com/elde...ted-voices-concern-potential-school-shooting/
Click to expand...

An 84 year old school guard gets his guns taken away because of a partially heard conversation in a diner. He was expressing concern that the school might be shot up when the school Police Guard leaves for a coffee break.

What do you expect from a state that was hanging people for Witchcraft? I don't think they have changed one bit since 1692.
 
Goosey said:
It's not merely a Nazi group he's a member of, it's a terrorist group or on the brink of being one. From Wiki:

"The organization's aim is to violently overthrow the federal government of the United States via terrorism and guerrilla warfare tactics. Since 2017, the organization has been linked to eight killings and several violent hate crimes, including assaults, rape and multiple cases of kidnapping and torture."
Click to expand...
The city of San Francisco has branded the NRA as a terrorist organization.
 
What are the chances this was a political move? Seattle authorities seized the weapons knowing it will be challenged in court. The court has to declare the law unconstitutional and return possession of the guns to a violent radical, great PR in the anti 2A crowds minds. The other option is to uphold a blatantly unconstitutional law and set a precedent for confiscation of weapons for whatever reason is made up in the future.
 
Fine Figure of a Man said:
What are the chances this was a political move? Seattle authorities seized the weapons knowing it will be challenged in court. The court has to declare the law unconstitutional and return possession of the guns to a violent radical, great PR in the anti 2A crowds minds. The other option is to uphold a blatantly unconstitutional law and set a precedent for confiscation of weapons for whatever reason is made up in the future.
Click to expand...
This would not be the first blatantly unconstitutional law upheld by SCOTUS.
 
Atom Waffen is a budding ISIS type organization.

Yep, it's just awful that authorities seized the firearms of an Atom Waffen member who espouses the murder of blacks and Jews while expressing admiration for Charles Manson, Dylan roof and Tim McVeigh. i cry no tears for this idiot.
 
I just read the Wiki article on atomwaffen. It is a .... crazy (I use the term advisedly as I have no real good descriptors) group with sympathies with Osama bin Laden and ISIS.
I recall the original Nazis did consider themselves aligned with certain Islamic sects .... so I shouldn't be surprised. I also find it odd (to my way of thinking) that atomwaffen is considered extreme right wing. In America, it seems neonazis are extreme right, though the German version was National Socialist (National Socialist German Workers Party). I'd consider them extreme left wing.
To be sure, I myself would be hard-pressed to categorize American neonazis as either hard right ....maybe even hard left, though they seem to believe in a control style govt. I associate more with the extreme left.

Hitler stated National Socialism .... his iteration, atleast, was a "syncretic" movement ; made of a conglomeration of different concepts and not easily pegged into any standard political spectrum easily. Perhaps one of the vilest tyrants in recent history was also the best definers of his brand of politics?:uhoh:

While I can't really disagree with taking the neonazi's guns away, I do find it disturbing that it was done, in that it is a precedent that could be used against others, if it continues .... rightwingers? Pro-Trump MAGA hatters? Where does it stop?

Also...this neonazi --- has he truly been "defanged"?? As Terry McVeigh showed, you can create a lot of havoc and death without guns .......
 
fireside44 said:
He might commit a crime.

That's enough for me, take his guns away.
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Based on what he MIGHT do? No, absolutely not. His repugnant beliefs aside, we do not violate constitutional rights based on what he might do. Ok, I know, we do it every day, but we shouldn't. There are laws that cover conspiracy to commit a crime already in the books. If he is that big a threat charge him.
 
Either that group has been designated as a terrorist group or it hasn't.

If it has, then you don't need RFLs to seize the weapons.

If it has not then this is IMHO clearly unconstitutional on its face.

Prosecuting folks for their speech or political views is unconstitutional, plain and simple.
 
alsaqr said:
Atom Waffen is a budding ISIS type organization.

Yep, it's just awful that authorities seized the firearms of an Atom Waffen member who espouses the murder of blacks and Jews while expressing admiration for Charles Manson, Dylan roof and Tim McVeigh. i cry no tears for this idiot.
Click to expand...

Losing rights for pre-crime is messed up. You ever see Minority Report? Additionally, as other posters noted, what exactly is a terrorist organization? If Atomwaffen and NRA are in the same category in the eyes of the left I'm scared forums like this where we exchange ammo recipes and projectile lethality might get lumped in too.

Free speech in the absence of any crimes is protected. You can't lose your guns for it, or you shouldn't anyways.
 
Robert said:
Based on what he MIGHT do? No, absolutely not. His repugnant beliefs aside, we do not violate constitutional rights based on what he might do. Ok, I know, we do it every day, but we shouldn't. There are laws that cover conspiracy to commit a crime already in the books. If he is that big a threat charge him.
Click to expand...
Thought I detected a note of sarcasm in fireside44's post. At least I hope so.
 
Tommygunn said:
While I can't really disagree with taking the neonazi's guns away, I do find it disturbing that it was done, in that it is a precedent that could be used against others,
Click to expand...

I agree. I can not and do not feel any sympathy for a nazi actively seeking to harm people. A world war was fought against the nazi regime, and we must remain vigilant against and not dismissive with such hate groups. Describing them as merely "political" in nature is a real danger that allows them to creep ahead and gain power, as they once did.

However, the confiscation of firearms is disturbing. What is a "cache" of firearms or an "arsenal" of firearms, when you are describing an individual? Certainly the use of such buzz words conveys the impression that the accused possesses multiple fully automatic weapons and rocket launchers and hand grenades. The use of such rhetoric is sometimes deliberately contrived to pander to a gullible public.
While a few gangs and radical militias and hate groups might indeed have such weapons, an individual might only have a few hunting firearms plus a handgun or two. No matter, it gets laid out for media to photograph and an ignorant public simply accepts the rhetoric, even if the guns of that individual are completely legal and number less than ten.

It's a slippery slope, and sometimes law-abiding individuals lose their guns because of it.
 
SharpDog said:
Either that group has been designated as a terrorist group or it hasn't.

If it has, then you don't need RFLs to seize the weapons.

If it has not then this is IMHO clearly unconstitutional on its face.

Prosecuting folks for their speech or political views is unconstitutional, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
Republicans are Nazis to Democrats and Nazis are terrorist, terrorist are murderers and murders deserve to die. Therefore they will be rounding up republicans and republican donors...
 
Tommygunn said:
I just read the Wiki article on atomwaffen. It is a .... crazy (I use the term advisedly as I have no real good descriptors) group with sympathies with Osama bin Laden and ISIS.
I recall the original Nazis did consider themselves aligned with certain Islamic sects .... so I shouldn't be surprised. I also find it odd (to my way of thinking) that atomwaffen is considered extreme right wing. In America, it seems neonazis are extreme right, though the German version was National Socialist (National Socialist German Workers Party). I'd consider them extreme left wing.
To be sure, I myself would be hard-pressed to categorize American neonazis as either hard right ....maybe even hard left, though they seem to believe in a control style govt. I associate more with the extreme left.

Hitler stated National Socialism .... his iteration, atleast, was a "syncretic" movement ; made of a conglomeration of different concepts and not easily pegged into any standard political spectrum easily. Perhaps one of the vilest tyrants in recent history was also the best definers of his brand of politics?:uhoh:

While I can't really disagree with taking the neonazi's guns away, I do find it disturbing that it was done, in that it is a precedent that could be used against others, if it continues .... rightwingers? Pro-Trump MAGA hatters? Where does it stop?

Also...this neonazi --- has he truly been "defanged"?? As Terry McVeigh showed, you can create a lot of havoc and death without guns .......
Click to expand...

Just as a point of reference the Wiki article on Nazism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism In it they explain many things, but also the reasons why they named themselves National Socialists.
 
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