RetiredUSNChief
Member
Might just as well shoot birdshot, then, for all the penetration they lack. Factory produced, cheap, and not a concern with respect to forensics data should you ever actually have to use your shotgun in defense.
Defensive Ammunition 101
- Thread starter Dave McCracken
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Might just as well shoot birdshot, then, for all the penetration they lack. Factory produced, cheap, and not a concern with respect to forensics data should you ever actually have to use your shotgun in defense.
Down Range
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They were good enough to eliminate problems in Vietnam. Makes them good enough for me.
amd6547
Member
They were considered an unsuccessful experiment in Vietnam.
The only guy I've learned of who was famous for using a shotgun in Vietnam was named Patches Watson. He was a SEAL, and often used an Ithaca Model 37 loaded with #4 buckshot.
His shotgun had a spreader choke device.
Patches' Model 37 is in the SEAL museum.
The only guy I've learned of who was famous for using a shotgun in Vietnam was named Patches Watson. He was a SEAL, and often used an Ithaca Model 37 loaded with #4 buckshot.
His shotgun had a spreader choke device.
Patches' Model 37 is in the SEAL museum.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
^^^^
What he said.
A great many concepts have been tested/attempted in firearms over the centuries of use, and ultimately the final outcome is that mass, combined with velocity, is pretty much king.
Razor blades, for example, are deadly sharp...but if you load up a shotgun shell with razor blades, all you'll get is a poor pattern, excessive loss of velocity, and minimal penetration.
HOWEVER...there is a decent range of ammunition available perfectly suitable for self-defense to choose from and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to say "you MUST use THIS one". Make your choice as you see fit, for whatever circumstances you may see yourself in. Just choose wisely.
What he said.
A great many concepts have been tested/attempted in firearms over the centuries of use, and ultimately the final outcome is that mass, combined with velocity, is pretty much king.
Razor blades, for example, are deadly sharp...but if you load up a shotgun shell with razor blades, all you'll get is a poor pattern, excessive loss of velocity, and minimal penetration.
HOWEVER...there is a decent range of ammunition available perfectly suitable for self-defense to choose from and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to say "you MUST use THIS one". Make your choice as you see fit, for whatever circumstances you may see yourself in. Just choose wisely.
Big7
Member
ABSOLUTELY.
Mine sits with a stack of 3 1/2in. 00.
Put on all the body armor you want. Even if there is no penetration, the blunt- force trauma from that 18 pellet shot shell WILL solve the problem.
And... Even with that armor on, nothing stopping the defender from shooting the face/ head or bottom torso. It's instant. Dope or not. NOBODY can survive that.
Case closed.
End of story.
Who's with me on that?
If you are, please "like" my post.
Big7
Member
No. They do not. Look it up on a reliable source.
Big7
Member
ABSOLUTELY !!
Especially with the Brown Water Navy shelling river banks with 10 and 12 gauge semi- auto mounted gun pods.
Off topic a little but NOTHING can survive that barrage if a direct hit occurs.
That load has been permanently discontinued from Federal, a shame.
I use the Federal LEO low recoil 9 pellet 00 in my 870 for home protection. My feelings are the reduced velocity makes 0 difference inside the home but the recoil is less for faster follow throughs and the muzzle blast effect is a bit less on the ear canal.
TikkaShooter
Member
Unless accompanied by Infantry, the shotgun was frowned on in Vietnam. The reason is simple, slower to reload. In combat, obviously, speed of reloading is of high importance. Can anyone reload a 12 gauge semi or pump faster than an AK or AR?
As I was in Vietnam; it isn't debatable. OTOH, for home defense, a shotgun is definitely good stuff.
1KPerDay
Member
Why? You don’t get prizes for the most likes.
amd6547
Member
TikkaShooter
Member
The R/Ts we inserted carried a sawed off M-79.
https://sofrep.com/news/the-guns-and-gear-carried-by-special-ops-sog-recon-teams//
"Sawed-off shotguns saw SOG service, too, primarily the Remington Model 870. One SOG recon skydiver, Sammy Hernandez, somehow got his hands on a sawed-off Winchester Model 1897, which he strapped aside his body for a night jump into Laos. Another SOG recon man carried a sawed-off Browning A5 semi-automatic into Laos, which proved his undoing; it was fast to fire but slow to reload, and he was shot dead while reloading."
https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...my-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/
I'm not saying you're wrong; however as I was there too; I also know what I saw.
https://sofrep.com/news/the-guns-and-gear-carried-by-special-ops-sog-recon-teams//
"Sawed-off shotguns saw SOG service, too, primarily the Remington Model 870. One SOG recon skydiver, Sammy Hernandez, somehow got his hands on a sawed-off Winchester Model 1897, which he strapped aside his body for a night jump into Laos. Another SOG recon man carried a sawed-off Browning A5 semi-automatic into Laos, which proved his undoing; it was fast to fire but slow to reload, and he was shot dead while reloading."
https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...my-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/
I'm not saying you're wrong; however as I was there too; I also know what I saw.
I don't ever remember seeing any shelling with shotguns, there were mounted belt fed 40mm OO buck with an assortment of other load outs. Flechettes in shotguns didn't have enough mass to be effective, some SEALs formed an oval shape at the muzzle of their Ithaca 37s in an attempt to get a broader pattern with OO buck, it didn't work out either.
Gunships could load flechette rockets in their rocket pods, with white phospherous damage was kinda like a stake and bake.
When did you serve in the Nam?
entropy
Member
Perhaps you should read post #244.
Shooting Times has an article in this month's edition that tested new Federal 1 3/4", 12 gauge shells with 1,200 fps, 1 ounce rifled slugs and 15 pellet, #4 buck rounds that seem to be pretty good choices for pump or double-barreled shotguns. The buckshot made 6-8" patterns of buckshot at 15 yards from modified choke barrels. The advantage when using a pump gun is that several more shots could be loaded in the tubular magazine. (Aguila has also made similar shells for a while.) The article said they shot them in a Rem 1100 shotgun, but didn't say how well they fed in that gas-operated gun.
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