Surplus rifles

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To me, looking at commercial rifles available now as mentioned Ruger and Savage for example, the only rifles they offer that have iron sights that compare to a surplus rifle in some sort of similarity is their scout rifles in .223 or .308. They average $650.00 in price. When it comes to the .223, why get a bolt action scout when you can get a AR-15?, unless you live where they have been outlawed.

The .308 scout seems neat, you can get not too expensive .308 to shoot a lot, but the rifle and ammo will cost around the same as many nice surplus rifles so it is really just personal preference the way I see it. $500 or $600 Swiss K31 or same average price for one of those scout rifles with ammo being around the same.

https://www.ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/models.html

https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57136
 
A couple I.E.s of many betters

Now some of this comes at cost.. But everything good costs..

-Today, there are many many many private individuals who have garage businesses and bigger who are out there making
specialty items for unheard of things 20 years. Side plates for Belt fed Semi Auto machine guns, there are kits and instructions
galore for taking kits and turning them into Semi auto "clones" of the original. Also people today are much more tuned in to
making something as original then "hell just good enough"

-There are companies out there making Gatling guns and Mortars, RPGs, Recoilless Rifles that hell work and pretty damn nicely.

-Today your computer allows you to purchase just about any obscure ammo you want. There is some rascel out there making it. (God bless them)

-Despite all the changes it has brought, Gunbroker has made finding guns almost doable in your pajamas. You have the chance to filter
through dozens of listings of a certain gun and then cherry pick the one you want. And what if you miss it??, several more waiting next week.

-On a more somber note, many of the great collectors of the past are clearing out some of their guns now and there are just some wonderful pieces
coming out on the market place.

-Maybe one of the greatest things has been Youtube and such computer based educational sources you can watch. My God, I remember the olden days
when you picked up a fine firearm and you would have to drag it around to several friends and shows trying to figure out how to break it down and replace a spring in it.. Now you get a drink, set down and there are several fine folks that have posted videos on just how to do that. Also there are several companies out
there to deliver the spring via the mail.

-Also with the world wide of the webs we can track down unit markings on firearms that would have taken years.

And that is just a few... Sure there are some draw back to the Olden days.. but damn it I am feeling to giddy to dwell on them now..
hell there are a few parts of me that worked better in the 80s & 90s.. :)
 
I'm one of those Collectors that plan to sell off a few gun in the next year or two. Not that I need the money, just need to make room.
I have six VZ 24's and will most likely only keep three of them.
I have over 20 Enfields and I'm sure I will end up selling off a few of them too.
 
lionking said:
Those Ruger or Savage don't even come with iron sights, which is fine if you only want to scope the gun. I wouldn't pay $400 for a run of the mill Mosin either, and different people have different likes for what they shoot. However a nice Swedish Mauser or Swiss K31 or Finnish Mosin, even at today's prices I would buy but that's me. See link. However it would be interesting to see what that Predator could do at 100 yards 10 shots within 10 to 15 minutes with a warm barrel and with surplus 7.62x51mm or Prvi ammo which on average can be had for around .47 to .65 cents a shot the average price of surplus rifle calibers made by Prvi. Get some Federal premium ammo at $1.00 a round and yeah might be super accurate in the Predator but expensive to shoot also.

For budget shooting in these times, AR-15 and .223 is king, followed buy a AK or SKS of some sort with again 7.62x39mm not expensive to shoot and after that a M1 carbine of some sort which a 50 round box can be had at around $18.00.

But there are still some surplus out there that is not too crazy priced, Yugo Mauser , maybe a K31 if you find a deal or still find a run of the mill Mosin for under $300.00, some of these people on gun broker list a price that is just wishful and nobody will probably buy.
Click to expand...
I don't see how iron sights are a necessity with a bolt action rifle, not for 100 yards. At that distance, a fixed 3x or 4x scope is compact and perfectly fine capable of anything from 0-500 yards.

I do wonder how a Ruger Predator would do after 15 minutes of a round per minute vs a comparable milsurp. The K31 would probably be it as I can't see a Mosin using crappy 7.62x54r ammo would be able to perform, but the problem with the K31 is 7.5x55 Swiss ammo is hard to find and only PPU makes any. Unless you're a reloader, the K31 isn't a great milsurp choice for shooting, which brings me back to the Arisaka. If you're gonna reload for your milsurp, it's hard to beat the Arisaka.

It's a lot easier to just go with a Ruger Predator, put a scope on it, and buy some decent Hornady .308 ammo when on sale. Performance wise? I doubt it'll be enough to notice.

I agree that AR and AK/SKS are the best rifles to shoot actual rifle rounds and not pistol carbines.
 
TTv2 said:
I don't see how iron sights are a necessity with a bolt action rifle, not for 100 yards. At that distance, a fixed 3x or 4x scope is compact and perfectly fine capable of anything from 0-500 yards.

It's a lot easier to just go with a Ruger Predator, put a scope on it, and buy some decent Hornady .308 ammo when on sale. Performance wise? I doubt it'll be enough to notice.

I agree that AR and AK/SKS are the best rifles to shoot actual rifle rounds and not pistol carbines.
Click to expand...
But it’s not a milsurp, and we are talking about milsurps.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
Here are the links to the post I did on both Mosins.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/spanish-civil-war-m91.858339/
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/spanish-civil-war-m91-dragoon.858261/
Click to expand...


Sorry I did not make my self clear, My Fault, What was the Mosin that they used to make that M39?? any markings on the Tang left???

By the way those two SCW rifles are awesome.. It would be nice to find Mosins that nice, but then with the SCW connection.. just flipping wow//
 
Last edited:
indy1919a4 said:
Sorry I did not make my self clear, My Fault, What was the Mosin that they used to make that M39?? any markings on the Tang left???

By the way those two SCW rifles are awesome.. It would be nice to find Mosins that nice, but then with the SCW connection.. just flipping wow//
Click to expand...
The M39 has a lot of surface pitting and the markings are not readable. Maybe the will show up after cleaning.
77475120-EE53-4CED-A220-F564FBA2474E.jpeg
 
TTv2 said:
I don't see how iron sights are a necessity with a bolt action rifle, not for 100 yards. At that distance, a fixed 3x or 4x scope is compact and perfectly fine capable of anything from 0-500 yards.

I do wonder how a Ruger Predator would do after 15 minutes of a round per minute vs a comparable milsurp. The K31 would probably be it as I can't see a Mosin using crappy 7.62x54r ammo would be able to perform, but the problem with the K31 is 7.5x55 Swiss ammo is hard to find and only PPU makes any. Unless you're a reloader, the K31 isn't a great milsurp choice for shooting, which brings me back to the Arisaka. If you're gonna reload for your milsurp, it's hard to beat the Arisaka.

It's a lot easier to just go with a Ruger Predator, put a scope on it, and buy some decent Hornady .308 ammo when on sale. Performance wise? I doubt it'll be enough to notice.

I agree that AR and AK/SKS are the best rifles to shoot actual rifle rounds and not pistol carbines.
Click to expand...

Iron sights might not be a necessity but that depends on your intent of shooting style. I personally like to shoot iron sights more than with optics. Almost all surplus come with iron sights, the only way to compare a commercial made rifle to a surplus rifle is if they come with iron sights also. For me as far as accuracy, the only way to compare between a surplus and new commercial is to shoot at least a box of rounds within 30 minutes or so to see how accuracy would hold up between the two when the barrel gets warm because I'm thinking of these as in terms of a range gun, take it out to the range and shoot target or steel gong or a rifle match of some sort. For those looking for a hunting rifle well yes there are better alternatives out today in the commercial market.

As far as ammo yes thank goodness for Prvi for those of us that don't reload they are the only ammo maker that makes certain calibers that aren't overly expensive like 7.65 Argentine and 7.5 French for example. There is also S&B for some calibers, there are plenty of steel cased 7.62x54 Russian ammo makers as well. Wish Prvi would make to spec 6.5 Carcano right now only Hornady does, and would make 7.7 Jap and 30.40 Krag. Those that reload well that makes it a lot easier and maybe less costly to shoot.

For those interested, there are a few Argentine 1891 sporterized Mausers on gun broker right now in the $250 to $300 range plus shipping

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/844418472

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/839703090

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/842195529

The first link it looks like that one is almost all original with only some of the stock toward the front having been sporterized. If I didn't already have two, and wasn't trying to hold back buying anything else for a while I'd be considering it myself but I would ask the seller if the bolt serial matches the gun.
 
I sold all my milsurps off last year just kept a SA marked m96 swede and a sako m39 for my son.
Also a couple wartime 91/30 slings with a Soviet soldiers name and initials marked on them.
It was fun while it lasted just lost interest and needed the room.
 
lionking said:
Iron sights might not be a necessity but that depends on your intent of shooting style. I personally like to shoot iron sights more than with optics. Almost all surplus come with iron sights, the only way to compare a commercial made rifle to a surplus rifle is if they come with iron sights also. For me as far as accuracy, the only way to compare between a surplus and new commercial is to shoot at least a box of rounds within 30 minutes or so to see how accuracy would hold up between the two when the barrel gets warm because I'm thinking of these as in terms of a range gun, take it out to the range and shoot target or steel gong or a rifle match of some sort. For those looking for a hunting rifle well yes there are better alternatives out today in the commercial market.

As far as ammo yes thank goodness for Prvi for those of us that don't reload they are the only ammo maker that makes certain calibers that aren't overly expensive like 7.65 Argentine and 7.5 French for example. There is also S&B for some calibers, there are plenty of steel cased 7.62x54 Russian ammo makers as well. Wish Prvi would make to spec 6.5 Carcano right now only Hornady does, and would make 7.7 Jap and 30.40 Krag. Those that reload well that makes it a lot easier and maybe less costly to shoot.
Click to expand...
I am surprised that PPU doesn't make a 7.7 or even 6.5 Jap load given the sheer number of cheap rifles out there. My guess is it's because most of them are in the US and PPU doesn't want to make ammo for a relatively small market located in one country.
 
indy1919a4 said:
A couple I.E.s of many betters

Now some of this comes at cost.. But everything good costs..

-Today, there are many many many private individuals who have garage businesses and bigger who are out there making
specialty items for unheard of things 20 years. Side plates for Belt fed Semi Auto machine guns, there are kits and instructions
galore for taking kits and turning them into Semi auto "clones" of the original. Also people today are much more tuned in to
making something as original then "hell just good enough"

-There are companies out there making Gatling guns and Mortars, RPGs, Recoilless Rifles that hell work and pretty damn nicely.

-Today your computer allows you to purchase just about any obscure ammo you want. There is some rascel out there making it. (God bless them)

-Despite all the changes it has brought, Gunbroker has made finding guns almost doable in your pajamas. You have the chance to filter
through dozens of listings of a certain gun and then cherry pick the one you want. And what if you miss it??, several more waiting next week.

-On a more somber note, many of the great collectors of the past are clearing out some of their guns now and there are just some wonderful pieces
coming out on the market place.

-Maybe one of the greatest things has been Youtube and such computer based educational sources you can watch. My God, I remember the olden days
when you picked up a fine firearm and you would have to drag it around to several friends and shows trying to figure out how to break it down and replace a spring in it.. Now you get a drink, set down and there are several fine folks that have posted videos on just how to do that. Also there are several companies out
there to deliver the spring via the mail.

-Also with the world wide of the webs we can track down unit markings on firearms that would have taken years.

And that is just a few... Sure there are some draw back to the Olden days.. but damn it I am feeling to giddy to dwell on them now..
hell there are a few parts of me that worked better in the 80s & 90s.. :)
Click to expand...

You and I define better very differently.

Don't get use to those youtube gun videos.....I have a feeling that one will be gone from your list inside of 5 years.
 
TTv2 said:
I am surprised that PPU doesn't make a 7.7 or even 6.5 Jap load given the sheer number of cheap rifles out there. My guess is it's because most of them are in the US and PPU doesn't want to make ammo for a relatively small market located in one country.
Click to expand...

7.7 seems a little more common. I have been looking for a nice type 38 for a while....took a long time to find the 99 I wanted.
 
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