"Move to a Better Neighborhood"

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Kleanbore

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We hear that insulting advice from time to time when discussing home invasions . It is not doable for many people, and it may not help much, anyway.

Glendale, MO is an upscale community in the St. Louis area. It has a low rate of violent crime.

But it is only a short highway distance from the City of St. Louis, which is a hotbed of crime.

The criminals downtown can obtain wheels in very short order, and they know that there are good things to be had in the homes in Glendale and similar communities.

The other day, a man showed up in Glendale in a Jeep and walked around looking for victims and booty. He found them. That was at two o'clock in the afternoon.

He rang a doorbell, forced his way in with a gun, and robbed a couple while their young child was still in a car seat in the garage.

A neighbor's doorbell camera captured his image, and other neighbors saw him and provided a description.

The Police Chief urges people to not answer their doors to strangers.

Good advice. I would add that they should acquire security cameras and an intercom.

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/c...asion/63-fb3530ad-4a95-4d3b-8313-4983d09b7100
 
The suggestion of moving to a better neighborhood may be insulting to some.
It is, to those who cannot afford to do so.

Nevertheless it is good advice.
It is, to those who can afford to to follow it.

But obviously some places are safer than others.
Yep.

Muggings, drive by shootings, and auto theft are very common in lower scale lower areas.

But the post was about home invasions. Home invaders know that "the good stuff", and people with ATM cards, reside in up-scale neighborhoods. That's where they can make a living.

Moving into one of those neighborhoods does not address the home invasion risk.
 
We hear that insulting advice from time to time. . .
It's not insulting, and it is good advice in some cases. If you feel insulted by advice you can't afford to implement, that reflects a problem in your thinking, not a problem in the advice.

The violent crime rate in the US (by neighborhood or by occupation of the victim) is an amplified Pareto distribution. The overwhelming majority of crime occurs in a small number of very dangerous zip codes. Not all, just an overwhelming majority.
If you live in one, moving out of it is certainly the most effective single action you can take.
 
It's not insulting,...
It is very insulting, to those who cannot afford to follow it.

and it is good advice in some cases.
Yes.

The violent crime rate in the US (by neighborhood or by occupation of the victim) is an amplified Pareto distribution. The overwhelming majority of crime occurs in a small number of very dangerous zip codes. Not all, just an overwhelming majority.
Yes.

If you live in one, moving out of it is certainly the most effective single action you can take.
Effective for staying safe on the way out to the car, while going for a walk, or while driving or refueling, yes.

Not for avoiding home invasions.
 
If there’s a will, there’s a way.
In my younger years I lived in some not so good areas.
I remember living in a trailer park that was pretty bad. Ended up finding out that there were a couple of meth labs in the back of the park.
I saved every penny I could and moved out within a few months. Christmas was lean that year.
You are correct, Crime does go to places that have money.
 
i find this thread extremely disappointing. specifically, that we're discussing whether economic conditions are insulting, rather than actual strategies and tactics and training relevant to this forum's mission to promote our constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

my advice to all is to leave economics out of the conversation as off topic for the same reason we don't discuss SHTF. while it's incredibly important, and intersects firearms topics in many places, and there may be people here who can offer sound economic or survival advice, it's off topic and separates us more than it unites us.
 
You know this for a fact? Source?
It is what the police chiefs in the better outlying cities are saying.

Addionally, they tell us that gangs of youths from the inner city are heading out into outlying counties to steal cars. We had a recent use of force incident that was discussed here that had to do with that, and another outside Chicago.

i find this thread extremely disappointing. specifically, that we're discussing whether economic conditions are insulting,
Not at all. When someone suggests a strategy someone cannot carry out, it is useless. If the person knows that, it is insulting. Surely one need not collect any data to conclude that many of the people in the nation's murder capital would move elsewhere if they could.

[QUOTE="taliv, post: 11295141, member: 13507"...]rather than actual strategies and tactics and training relevant to this forum's mission to promote our constitutional right to keep and bear arms.[/QUOTE]...and relevant to self preservation. That was in the OP--don't answer the door to strangers, and get an intercom.

it is also insulting to suggest that the risk of home invasion can be effectively mitigated by "moving to a better neighborhood". I live in a good neighborhood--not a Hallmark Christmas Special setting, but good. Home invasions are rare. But I choose to be ready.

Move to a "better" neighborhood? NO. Most of the home invasions that we see on the news occur in neighborhoods fancier than mine.

That's where the easy money is.
 
Kleanbore's point about home invasions happening where homes have what to steal is a good one, but it's not the whole story. When I was researching where to move to, I checked the ACTUAL CRIME STATISTICS for the areas that made it past the first cut. Guess what, areas that otherwise seem similar in terms of demographic data, including average income, and home values, may have wildly differing crime rates. And it's not only a question of proximity to places with known higher crime rates. So for anyone here who lives in either a high-crime area or a jurisdiction that does not respect the Second Amendment, I strongly recommend checking the actual crime statistics for the areas to which you want to consider moving. Also take the types of crimes into account. This information is easily findable online.
 
I will be so bold as to suggest those demographically similar areas with wildly differing crime rates may have other important differences, such as the rate of illicit drug activity, or other influences. Just because a neighborhood may seem "nice" doesn't necessarily mean it's safe. Also, neighborhoods where the residents know each other and look out for each other might be safer than those who don't, regardless of economics. I have no facts to back this up of course, but it would be an interesting topic to investigate.
 
IMHO, telling someone to "just move to a better neighborhood" is pointless advance that doesn't solve a thing, and the only people who thinks it's helpful advice are those who are higher up on the economical scale. If the people who live in a lower income and higher crime neighborhood could just get up and move to a nicer neighborhood, I think they have enough common sense to do so.

Yes, some areas are at higher risk than others, but what I believe the OP was getting at is no place is immune from crime and not to have a false sense of security just because you live in a "safe" neighborhood.
 
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It is what the police chiefs in the better outlying cities are saying.
So, in other words, you don't actually know. Besides, are these police chiefs saying that the risk of home invasion is the same regardless of the neighborhood, or that the rate is increasing in the "nicer" neighborhoods? There's a big difference.
Guess what, areas that otherwise seem similar in terms of demographic data, including average income, and home values, may have wildly differing crime rates.
Depending on how large of an area you're looking at, differences like that can be explained by the presence of just a few criminals, even just one or two families in some cases.
 
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We have a local weekly newspaper that includes the counties Sherriff Dept. report and one of the counties Major Population Centers, Police Dept. report. Thus we have a indicator of criminal activity. We do have one area that is adjacent to a larger population base/center that is a nettlesome issue occasionally.
 
So, in other words, you don't actually know.
Not directly, of course, but I know what the chiefs are saying.

Besides, are these police chiefs saying that the risk of home invasion is the same regardless of the neighborhood, or that the rate is increasing in the "nicer" neighborhoods?
Neither. Some are saying that burglars and home invaders are driving to their upscale neighborhoods from other places and breaking into homes and taking things from open garages and automobiles. and that residents should take appropriate precautions.

New accounts bear that out.

Others have pointed out that gangs from the larger, high crime city are going into remote areas outside the city and stealing cars. We recently discussed an incident in Jefferson County, MO in which youths from the City of St. Louis shot at a resident who came upon them while they were examining a truck.

And we had a thread about youths from Chicago stealing cars in rural areas. In one incident, they attacked a resident. One of the gang was killed, and another was charged with felony murder.
 
I live in a nice neighborhood and my house is the least nice one in it by a wide margin. I like it this way because there are meth labs and opium dens and everything you can think of not a half mile down the road.

My house is not an easy target. My cars are behind the house with a floodlight right on them. It’s a raised foundation with holly planted all around it. Motion sensors yadda yadda.

A police officer lives two houses down and had a late night knock on his door. He hit his porch lights from out of view and some interesting looking folks immediately took off. Probably for the better. He said he was wearing nothing but a Mini-14.
 
Sad but if I lived in a neighborhood where home invasions were "likely" (I know you can never predict with certainty anything like that) I would develop a much greater defensive mindset than I probably have now, and utilize imaging technology where practical for whatever benefit that might provide. Neighbors need to look out for one another, and yet in many communities the closer we are the farther apart we become.
 
You will find crime just about anywhere you go.
You will not always find real crime stats because, they can be twisted to look better or worse.
Trust me, I know. Our crime rate is down right now. Not because we have less crime, but because of the way it is reported. An attempt murder, where a person is shot at but not hit, doesn’t make it into the list of attempt murders.
Proactive policing is frond upon in my area right now because, it leads to arrest and the more people you arrest, the higher the crime rate.
If you’re one of the type that gets insulted when someone suggests that you move to a better area, it might be that you’re just a bit of a snowflake.
There are many people that move every year so that they can live in a better place.
I know that it’s hard for most to just pickup and go, but not impossible for most. For those that don’t have the option of moving there are things that you can do to make your area better. Get to know your neighbors. Get to know the police officers that work your area. Instal an alarm system in your house.

I myself do not live in an up scaled neighborhood. My neighborhood was build in the 60’s. When I bought my house, about 40% of the houses in the neighborhood were rented out. I’ve been here 26 years now and only about 10% of the homes are rented, the rest have been bought.
I know my neighbors and we look out for each other. We even call each other if we think we see a problem.
You hear in the news about home invasion in up scale neighborhoods because that sales air time. No one wants to hear about the home invasions in low income areas, which happen more often.
 
Sad but if I lived in a neighborhood where home invasions were "likely" (I know you can never predict with certainty anything like that) I would develop a much greater defensive mindset than I probably have now, and utilize imaging technology where practical for whatever benefit that might provide.
I seriously doubt that there are any neighborhoods in which home invasions are really likely.

Muggings, strong arm robbery, drive-by shootings, stabbings, car theft, rapes, shootings on the metrolink train, gangs breaking up stores--yes. Those are the high crime numbers.

Don't rely on published crime stats, for the reasons mentioned by Gunny. Another example along that line--it there are ten cars burglarized in one block, report it as one crime.

Frankly, home invasions are rather few and far between.

But--it's not the odds, it's the stakes.
 
By the way, I have had posters suggest that I "move to a better neighborhood", knowing absolutely nothing about where I live or what the alternatives might be. The answer is no, I'm better off where I am.

Personally, I find that insulting.

They make that suggestion assuming that I am really worried about the risk of home invasion. I am not.

They believe I must be, because I carry in the house. That just does not seem reasonable to those who have not thought it through.

Our house layout, the number of potential points of ingress, and the reality that anyone who might come in cannot be relied upon to do so when I am in the bedroom make that a prudent tactic.

I do not have to put it on or take it off every time I leave or return home.

Full disclosure--when the idea was first suggested, I thought it preposterous.

For a day or two.

We do have cameras and an intercom, and we are very careful about answering the door. The gun is a last resort.
 
Depending on the jurisdiction, and yes, the politics of the region, crime statistics are manipulated to the point of being almost meaningless these days.

I've spoken before of a "professional" burglar (who eventually escalated into armed home invasion) I once interviewed about why he committed his crimes where he did (the nicer neighboods) and his response: "Because that's where the nice stuff is ..."

One of our local gangs of home invaders (three guys) all lived in the same trailer park. They did not perform their activities in trailer parks.

Moving to a better neighborhood/area/city is not tactics per se.

I live in a great area that does see its share of burglaries and the occasional home invasion. And when my abode was violated, the advice to move to a "better" area was, in fact, insulting to me.

I understand Kleanbore's point. As one who lived in California ("Just move to a free state") and now lives in the (formerly) great state of Washington (quickly turning blue), we get the same bullcrap said to us. "Just move to a 'free state.' " I do take that stuff as insulting, depending on the context, but especially from anonymous internet persons who for whatever reason, deem it necessary to give this oh so practical advice.

Layered security. Secure windows and hardened doors. Cameras. Door and window alarms. Quality safes. Dogs (even chihuahuas) are alarms, even if they don't engage invaders. Last resort: defense with firearms.

But most important: a plan (with all family members involved and on the same page).
 
One of our local gangs of home invaders (three guys) all lived in the same trailer park. They did not perform their activities in trailer parks.
Imagine that!

Layered security. Secure windows and hardened doors. Cameras. Door and window alarms. Quality safes. Dogs (even chihuahuas) are alarms, even if they don't engage invaders. Last resort: defense with firearms.
Yep.
 
Good advice. I would add that they should acquire security cameras and an intercom.

Better a good fence and a big dog. Cameras just capture the data so they catch your killer later
 
I posted this approximately 4 years ago. The majority of responses were "Move to a better neighborhood."

In the gas station thread someone made a comment about not having to plan every move like a tactical exercise or words pretty close to that and it got me thinking.

Some of us (I'm positive I'm not the only one) do live in places where going out the front door requires some forethought. Like the thread title says I live in a shady neighborhood, I've been hit up by panhandlers right out side my door, I've found needles in the parking lot and we do have the (very) occasional drive by as well as robberies and rapes in the neighborhood.

Here are a couple of things I've learned

Don't flaunt your valuables. I have neighbors that leave their cars unlocked to save on replacing window glass. I'm not that bad but I do not leave so much as a Wal Mart bag in my car over night.

When we moved in here we moved the gun safe in early in the morning and put it in a closet. When we bought a new TV I took the box to work to throw it in the dumpster.

Mind. Your. Business. I've seen at least 4 deals happen right in front of me this week. I make a point of taking zero interest. I didn't see it, I didn't hear it it's not my business. I was walking the dog the other day I saw two guys start a fight just down the side walk in front of me. I have no need to involve myself in their drama, left turn walk away.

Pay attention to people and pay special attention to people that are paying attention to you. Around here if they're focused on you they're deciding if you're a mark. A couple of weeks back some meth head was walking through my parking lot, took one look at me and made a beeline right at me. About 10 feet away he starts the interview "Hey, what time is it?" My response "Sorry, can't help you." He flips "M**********r you can't tell me what apartments these are?!" (Note the two different questions?) at this point I put my hand on my gun and say "Can't help you man, you need to step." The guy knows I have gun and his response is " Yo dawg you best watch the Fbomb out" before walking all the way around the building and heading back the way he came.

Pay attention to your surroundings. I find homeless people sleeping in the halls or the entries once a month or so. Before I open my door to go out I look through the peephole, before I open the fire doors at the end of the hall I crack them and check the stairwell. I look at the parking lot from the top of the stairs. I reverse the process coming in.

People shoot meth behind our dumpsters ( someone dumped an ATM machine out there one night) I take the trash out in the middle of the day and I pay attention while I'm walking up there.

Last point (and I've said this before) if don't know you I don't open the door for you. When we first moved in several process servers showed up looking for the previous tenant. They were all told to go to the office and verify that the person was gone without me ever opening the door.

Best way to learn situational awareness is to live somewhere you need it

Since I posted this Colorado Springs has been over run by Tweakers. We don't have many home invasions (Of the home invasions we do have in almost every case the homeowner opened the door and let the invaders in) but we have a lot of burglaries (home and car) and car thefts. We also have at least 2 armed robberies a night.
 
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