Model 10 in 357.

Good for you @Barry loyd I like to see men do things like this.

scaatylobo said:

I do NOT want to know when [ NOT IF ] this ends in the ruination of your face,hands,others in your AO.

If you have any clue as to the C.U.P. of the .38 smith & Wesson special,v/s the C.U.P. of the .357 magnum = and you persist at this,sorry but put me on your insurance PLEASE.

And if you don't know what C.U.P. means,your really playing with a match that will light you up.

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Good grief...didn't take long for that to start.

film495 said:

why not just swap to a .357 cylinder? didn't they make a k frame .357? I guess if you just wanted to see if you could do it and if it would work, nicely done. seems a little risky, not that is all bad - but, the boring police will give you a hard time I'm sure

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Has no one here heard of a Model 13?? It's a K-Frame .357, same as a Model 10 heavy barrel, only in .357-

Ratshooter said:

I remember the old gunwriter Jan Liborel wrote and article about a trip he made through the S&W factory and he stated the 38 and 357 cylinders all got the same heat treatment. He even had a photo of the cylinders in the rack that was loaded into the oven.

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Exactly. From a manufacturing standpoint it would make absolutely no sense to take tens of thousands of K-Frame cylinder blanks and heat treat some of them for chambering in .38 Special and some for .357 Magnum.

I did something similar with a Police Service 6 .38 Special except I don't have the wherewithal or tools to rechamber cylinders, I just bought a Security 6 cylinder/crane assembly off of eBay for $50 and swapped them out.

35W

35 Whelen said:

Good for you @Barry loyd I like to see men do things like this.



Good grief...didn't take long for that to start.



Has no one here heard of a Model 13?? It's a K-Frame .357, same as a Model 10 heavy barrel, only in .357-

View attachment 880490



Exactly. From a manufacturing standpoint it would make absolutely no sense to take tens of thousands of K-Frame cylinder blanks and heat treat some of them for chambering in .38 Special and some for .357 Magnum.

I did something similar with a Police Service 6 .38 Special except I don't have the wherewithal or tools to rechamber cylinders, I just bought a Security 6 cylinder/crane assembly off of eBay for $50 and swapped them out.

35W

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I commented on the S&W statement on heat treat because of the debate about the heat treat most likely on guns produced prior to the introduction of the .357 K-Frame.

I believe the M13 has a longer cylinder.(to be less susceptible to bullet creep) and a shorter forcing cone. The M10 .357 I assume was the same but I've never seen one.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Wouldnt shoot loose any faster than the Model 19s, which have the same guts.

Really, the only issue I see is if the heat treatment was in fact different for the Magnum cylinders. Since it would require seperate processes and be more costly to do them differently, I subscribe to the theory that the metallurgy is the likely the same.

That said, all vintage K-frames are a bit too lightly built for shooting Magnums anyway, IMO. I do like the OPs conversion, though, as it gives it an added capability to fire the longer ammo in an emergency.

Kinda like shooting .32acp in a .32 S&W.....not a great idea, but you could if you HAD to.

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Ah, ok. Good info.

Tinman357 said:

I did this to a Ruger Police Service Six, but I would be cautious with a model 10.

Let us know how it holds up.

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This is done a lot.

From post #23:
"To swap in a longer cylinder, you would have to shorten the barrel extension and recut the forcing cone."

This seems like a great way to get the barrel to cylinder gap that you really want. For not too much money either; good kitchen table gunsmith work!
Doing this to your own M10 means you won't be getting a used M13 that may have been beat up with too many light weight full magnum loads. Always a danger with a used K frame magnum, and not always obvious on close inspection! Especially if you are buying the gun on line, with only photos to be your guide.

Best,
Rick

94045 said:

Really given the price of a Model 13 it seems to make more sense to simply get a 13.

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Where can i find one in good condition at a reasonable price?

i brought a S&W Model 64 4” at a gun show in October. I am constantly looking for K Frame revolvers and this was the first one I found in several years. I can’t recall seeing any Model 13’s.

Given the availability and the affordability of model 10s, I guess I don't see an issue. It's the OP's gun and his handloads. If it were an rare Holy Grail type firearm, or a LNIB unfired, than I would ask, WHY?

BSA1 said:

Where can i find one in good condition at a reasonable price?

i brought a S&W Model 64 4” at a gun show in October. I am constantly looking for K Frame revolvers and this was the first one I found in several years. I can’t recall seeing any Model 13’s.

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I cant recall ever seeing a M13 in the flesh......

I remember one of LGS got a bunch of M13 3" RB when everyone was transitioning to semi-auto but don't remember which agency they came from. Might have been S&W FBI buybacks.

buck460XVR said:

Given the availability and the affordability of model 10s, I guess I don't see an issue. It's the OP's gun and his handloads. If it were an rare Holy Grail type firearm, or a LNIB unfired, than I would ask, WHY?

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Given the availability and the affordability of 357 revolvers, I'll go ahead and ask.

Ratshooter said:

I remember the old gunwriter Jan Liborel wrote and article about a trip he made through the S&W factory and he stated the 38 and 357 cylinders all got the same heat treatment. He even had a photo of the cylinders in the rack that was loaded into the oven.

But I would just stick to low end magnum loads at the most. The same loads you could have gotten with 38 Special brass and duplicate 33/44 loads that lead to the invention of the 357 round. I load a lot of those type loads myself. Any where from 6.6grs to around 7.5grs of Unique or any similar burn rate powder. I also like 8grs of Blue dot in a 357 case all with 158gr bullets. About the lightest bullets I like are around 140grs.

This was a good thread on mid range 357 loads.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/whats-your-favorite-mild-to-medium-357-load.858676/

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I have nothing to add to this particular thread, other than to say that Jan Libourel was always one of my favorite gun writers...

.

35 Whelen said:

Good for you @Barry loyd I like to see men do things like this.



Good grief...didn't take long for that to start.



Has no one here heard of a Model 13?? It's a K-Frame .357, same as a Model 10 heavy barrel, only in .357-

View attachment 880490



Exactly. From a manufacturing standpoint it would make absolutely no sense to take tens of thousands of K-Frame cylinder blanks and heat treat some of them for chambering in .38 Special and some for .357 Magnum.

I did something similar with a Police Service 6 .38 Special except I don't have the wherewithal or tools to rechamber cylinders, I just bought a Security 6 cylinder/crane assembly off of eBay for $50 and swapped them out.

35W

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I still own the model 10 I was issued in 1982 as a LEO in the police academy and will bet my life on it anytime.

I have owned MANY .357's and that includes a 3" barreled model 13..

I posted the C.U.P. statements and still looking to see any here mention that as a possible reason to NOT play with science.

Barry loyd said:

@35 Whelen thank you!
I will say this, I do not have nor used any special tools or tooling. I did it with simple tools I already had. This great hobby is and was made great by men and women doing things like this.

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I for one would like to hear how you did the work.

JFrame said:

I have nothing to add to this particular thread, other than to say that Jan Libourel was always one of my favorite gun writers...

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I have several of the G&A annuals with articles from him and Terry Murbach. Terry was my favorite gunwriter and a few years ago the guys at Gunblast got him to contact me. What a thrill. We traded many emails and he even invited me to visit him at his home in S. Dakota. Now that he is gone I really regret not going. That guy was funny as all get out.

In 1972 S&W did a run of Model 10-6's in .357, with that caliber marked on the barrels, for the NYSP. This supposedly was the forerunner of the 13.

This from the S&W Forum:

"I got my letter on my S&W 10-6 357. No scanning capability, so I'll quote the high points for those who might be interested.

" Thank you for your recent letter requesting information on your Model 10-6 chambered in .357 Magnum."

" The 10-6, is the predecessor to the Model 13 originally designed for law enforcement agencies. This 4" barrel, square butt revolver, introduced in 1972, is manufactured on the same frame as the heavy barrel Model 10 ...."

" In 1972, Smith & Wesson had in inventory a quantity of .357 Military & Police revolvers with fixed sights. These were completed and although they have the Model 10-6 markings (.357 caliber), they are the original Model 13's. The approximate quantity is 1200 units and their serial numbers are dispersed throughout the D prefix serial number range. Between 1972 and 1974 a total of approximately 3,000 Model 10-6s were manufactured for a series of law enforcement agencies."

" We have researched your Smith & Wesson Model 10-6 Chambered in .357 Magnum, Predecessor to the Model 13, in company records which indicaite that your handgun, with the serial number D5569XX was shipped from our factory on March 28, 1973, and delivered to Richard Sherburne Co., Greenfield MA one of Smith & Wesson's law enforcement distributors. The records indicaite that this revolver was shipped with a 4 inch barrel, blue finish, checkered walnut grips. These revolvers were special built for law enforcement agencies and were chambered in .357 Magnum. The largest agencies to whom Mr. Sherburne's company supplied this model was the New York State Police."

Evidently it appears mine is one of the original 1200 10-6's in 357. This also answers the question of how many were made. Aparently 1200 + 3000. Very interesting background on a fabulous revolver. Regards 18DAI."

I had a model 13 I got for doing some work to someones mobile home. I repaired one water leak and replaced a bath faucet. Did a couple other small repairs and was paid with the gun. The gun was loaded and you couldn't open it. The ejector rod had come unthreaded and locked up the gun.

Once I figured out what the problem was (no internet way back in the late 1980s) I screwed the rod in and got the gun unloaded. I took out the ejector rod and put Loc-Tite on it and screwed it back in. No more problems. Someone offered me way more than I had in it so I sold it.Like many other guns I wish I would have kept it. But I do have a model 65 that ain't going anywhere.

Reading this thread makes me wonder if I find a 640-1 crane and cylinder, maybe I can convert my 640 (38) to .357. Hmmm.....

NIGHTLORD40K said:

I cant recall ever seeing a M13 in the flesh......

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Model 13's are out there as well as the Model 65 which is the same gun in stainless. I happen to have 3 Model 13's with 3" Barrels and Nickel finish and 1 Model 13 Blue with 3" Barrel.
The 3" Barrel versions are getting harder and harder to find since there is a sudden following for 3" Barrel Smiths. There are plenty of 4" out there especially Model 65's.

If I’m not mistaken, Jim Cirillo had a M10 fitted with a M19 cylinder.

Came across an interesting excerpt today from Smith & Wesson: 1857–1945 by Roy Jinks and Robert Neal that made me think of this thread:

• Heat treatment was eliminated by order Oct. 12, 1945 for cylinders on the .22 & .32 ‘I’ frames, K22, 32 & 38, and the 44 & 45 N frames.

Does anyone have info as to when — or if — heat treatment of K-frame cylinders in .38 Spl. was restored?

I knew a office who had his S&W md 64 chambered to .357 as his off duty revolver, using 125 gr .357,s in it. he,s retired now and that S&W 64 is his person ccw. he never had a problem with it with .357,s, but I don,t know how many .357,s he fired thru it. he said the gunsmith who reamed it to .357 charged him 6.00 a hole.

Anchorite said:

Reading this thread makes me wonder if I find a 640-1 crane and cylinder, maybe I can convert my 640 (38) to .357. Hmmm.....

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Unlike the k frame, the frame of the J frame was changed when they came out with the .357 version. The window was enlarged to accommodate the longer cylinder. It wouldn't surprise me if it was also beefed up some.

Anchorite said:

Reading this thread makes me wonder if I find a 640-1 crane and cylinder, maybe I can convert my 640 (38) to .357. Hmmm.....

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If your standard of safety is that if the gun does not blow up in your hand after 25 rounds, then what you are thinking is feasible. Would you mind losing an eye at round 50?

Other than heat treatment, the forcing cone of the barrel is often cut different between magnums and the non magnums, of the same bullet diameter. There are probably more things that are different. The fact I don't know them only proves I am so incompetent that I don't know how incompetent I am. That creates fear in me, as I only get one life, one set of eyes, hands, and one head. No firearm is worth any of those items. But, that is just me, I am not an early adopter, I would have taken the nigh road and not the Hastings Cutoff if I were given the choice. Chomp, chomp.

I had forgot about this thread. A while back posted pictures of the nickle plated model 10 heavy barrel that my mother gave me. It was her duty gun while she was on the Ft Worth Sheriffs department. I had it out a couple of nights ago and decided to compare it to my model 65 357 magnum. Pretty much the same gun except the cylinder on the 38 is about a tenth of an inch shorter than the 357 cylinder.

So if rechambering a 38 to 357 in a model 10 you may be limited to shorter bullets or deeper seating of the bullets if changing to a 357 mag. The world is full of 357 guns. If I wanted a 357 I think just finding a good used 357 is what I would do. And most 357s see far more 38s than full power magnum rounds through them. And the fixed sighted guns always sell for a lower price.

Ratshooter said:

I had forgot about this thread. A while back posted pictures of the nickle plated model 10 heavy barrel that my mother gave me. It was her duty gun while she was on the Ft Worth Sheriffs department. I had it out a couple of nights ago and decided to compare it to my model 65 357 magnum. Pretty much the same gun except the cylinder on the 38 is about a tenth of an inch shorter than the 357 cylinder.

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The key question — still unresolved — is whether at some point S&W began heat treating K-frame models in .38 Spl. again after having ceased to do so in October 1945.