How much does "limp wristing" affect attitudes towards semi-autos?

George Dickel said:

I was at an indoor range a while back and a guy in the stall next to me was shooting a Ruger .327 revolver. We got to talking and he asked if I would like to shoot it and naturally I said yes. Nice revolver, a bit snappy but it was fun and I might consider one. Anyway, I was shooting my Kimber Micro 9 and I reciprocated and asked if he would like to shoot it. He could only get two shots off maximum before it would stove pipe, most time it was every shot. I was really thrown off as I thought something had happened to the pistol because I had just fired about 4 magazine through it with no problems. I took the pistol and put two mags through it with no problems and gave it back to him with a full mag. Same thing, malfunction after each round. I can imagine he would tell all his friends to never buy that jamomatic pistol. The only thing I could figure out was he was limp wristing it something terrible. I wonder how many semi-autos get a bad rap from shooters because of their inability to shoot it properly.

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great wall of text, Batman.

limp wristing could have been a factor, but his grip could have also been part of it.

I have seen people grip is such as way as to inhibit the slide's freedom of movement.

George Dickel said:

I wonder how many semi-autos get a bad rap from shooters because of their inability to shoot it properly.

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Probably a few. Owning a gun and even shooting it occasionally doesn't make someone a "shooter" any more than owning a guitar and strumming it occasionally makes someone a musician.

Smaller semis tend to be more sensitive, but I've observed full-sized duty pistols that would occasionally jam for a new shooter, but never for me. It certainly effects attitude unless it's corrected. . . but it's also something that can be partially addressed in design and ammo design.

I personally won’t keep a gun that I can induce a limp wrist malfunction with. I’ve found plenty that aren’t susceptible, or at least that I haven’t been able to make it happen.

"Limpwristing" is a hard concept to quantify and I'm not even sure if it's a legitimate concern in most cases of guns malfunctioning but I've often heard that some pistols are more prone to be "sensitive" to limp-wristing than others. In terms of any pistol being intended for self-defense purposes, I have no use for any pistol whatsoever that is "prone" to jamming if it is being held in a less than perfect grip when firing.

I had a similar situation with my XDs 45.

I suspect this happens more often then we realize. But is that a lot? Maybe, with inexperienced shooters.

It's possible that if he only shoots revolvers, he's become used to letting the gun roll up with recoil. I can imagine doing so with an auto could cause some problems.

Corpral_Agarn said:

I have seen people grip is such as way as to inhibit the slide's freedom of movement.

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Yup...........
Why is your support hand bleeding?
Oh, never mind, lesson learned.

I started on revolvers and shot only my 357 SP101 and my S&W 460 magnum for the first two years that I shot handguns. Honestly, I struggled when I bought a semiautomatic.

I agree, if the guy shoots revolvers pretty exclusively then he might be used to letting the gun role a bit more than is appropriate for a semi.

I learned to shoot pistols using cap and ball revolvers, which jam if you DON'T limp-wrist them a little.
Adapting to semi-autos took a little time and concentration... .

WrongHanded said:

It's possible that if he only shoots revolvers, he's become used to letting the gun roll up with recoil. I can imagine doing so with an auto could cause some problems.

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Yup, in my wife's and my experience, getting "used to letting the gun roll up with recoil" can, and absolutely will cause problems when switching to semi-autos. Mrs. .308 Norma was one of the top IHMSA revolver competitors in the state back in the '80s, and she got there with a Ruger 10.5" Super Blackhawk 44 Magnum. She knew to grip that revolver "firmly" as she put it, but to "just relax and let it buck when it goes off."
Fast forward 20 years - my wife bought her first 9mm semi for concealed carry. I think it was some model of Ruger. It jammed. Then she tried a Sig, then a Glock, then a Smith, and even a Taurus. She could make every danged one of those semi autos jam in every way that jams can occur. Yet most of them (except the Taurus) worked fine for me. So my wife went to carrying the gun she could trust - a 38 Special revolver.
But last year my wife decided to try one more time. She bought a Smith M&P 380 EZ. It jammed for her at first too, but rather than just give up on it like she did every other semi auto she ever tried, she asked our friend (and owner of the gun range) to watch her shoot. He saw what she was doing right away. It wasn't exactly "limp wristing" but it was essentially the same thing. After running tens of thousands of full-house 44 Magnum loads in a revolver in competition, my wife had learned to grip the gun firmly alright as she squeezed the trigger, but she had developed her reflexes to the point she could immediately "just relax and let it buck" when it went off.
Since that day, I don't think my wife has had more than two or three jams with either of our semi-autos. She maintains her firm grip on them even as they go off. But she had to learn that, and it wasn't easy.
Last summer though, we both completed the Idaho "Enhanced" Concealed Carry class, and my wife put 100 rounds through her Smith semi-auto in about 45 minutes without a single failure.
BTW, running more than two or three full-house 44 Magnum loads through my wife's old Super Blackhawk is sheer torture for her nowadays. Reality is, running tens of thousands of full-house 44 Magnum loads through her Super Blackhawk back in the '80s is probably what caused the arthritis in her thumb joint in the first place.

George Dickel said:

I was at an indoor range a while back and a guy in the stall next to me was shooting a Ruger .327 revolver. We got to talking and he asked if I would like to shoot it and naturally I said yes. Nice revolver, a bit snappy but it was fun and I might consider one. Anyway, I was shooting my Kimber Micro 9 and I reciprocated and asked if he would like to shoot it. He could only get two shots off maximum before it would stove pipe, most time it was every shot. I was really thrown off as I thought something had happened to the pistol because I had just fired about 4 magazine through it with no problems. I took the pistol and put two mags through it with no problems and gave it back to him with a full mag. Same thing, malfunction after each round. I can imagine he would tell all his friends to never buy that jamomatic pistol. The only thing I could figure out was he was limp wristing it something terrible. I wonder how many semi-autos get a bad rap from shooters because of their inability to shoot it properly.

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... and NOW you know why the Desert Eagle has a reputation as a "jammomatic". Folks pick up this 5 pound-plus pistol,improperly grip it, shove the mag up into the action,
limp-wrist the first shot, and that's it, it's all the gun's fault, when it locks up, with a textbook stovepipe. There's a learning curve, for many folks, with limp-wristing auto-loaders. Some get over it, some don't.
A lot of folks don't have the patience to properly learn how to handle an auto loader. Of course, it's far easier to blame that 22LR pistol, that needed cleaning 200 rounds ago. It's far easier to blame that GP-35, than to consider you may not have been supporting it properly, as it cycled.

People are quick to slam things they can't shoot properly, on the internet. Unfortunately, these same people are slow to praise things which work well, that
is simply expected. So you have to take many net comments with a grain of salt.

You can have the strongest wrists in the world but if you let the gun drive you back when shooting instead of driving the gun forward you can induce the same problems you see with limpwristing.

I just recently watched a Leatham video where he explains this.

Theres just so many idiosyncrasies to shooting well. No doubt there are probably a lot of folks that blame the gun when the real issue the their shooting.

I have seen people limp wrist semiautos and I have seen people use a loose grip and get the same effect. I have found that when you tell a man that he is “limp-wristing” a gun they tend to take offense and then struggle to over control the gun so as not to be a “limp-wrister”.
I don’t tell people they are limp wristing a gun any longer. I tell them they need to keep their wrist a little straighter and try not to let the gun rock so much. That usually gets the desired result.
I shoot with a guy on occasion that would limp wrist auto loaders all the time. He mostly shoots single action revolvers. It seems to be a natural progression or regression, in this case. He will get a couple stovepipes and correct his grip and then everything works out fine.

Pat Riot said:

I have seen people limp wrist semiautos and I have seen people use a loose grip and get the same effect. I have found that when you tell a man that he is “limp-wristing” a gun they tend to take offense and then struggle to over control the gun so as not to be a “limp-wrister”.
I don’t tell people they are limp wristing a gun any longer. I tell them they need to keep their wrist a little straighter and try not to let the gun rock so much. That usually gets the desired result.
I shoot with a guy on occasion that would limp wrist auto loaders all the time. He mostly shoots single action revolvers. It seems to be a natural progression or regression, in this case. He will get a couple stovepipes and correct his grip and then everything works out fine.

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That’s a good observation about a lot of guys. I wonder if asking “Do you shoot a lot of revolvers?” would be a good diplomatic way to ask the question because it doesn’t leave them feeling emasculated.

There are some platforms that are much more susceptible to limp wristing. I can’t get a Pico, Bodyguard, or LCP II to limp wrist no matter how hard I try. I can get a CW 380 to do it at least once per magazine. I can’t get a Shield, P365 or M&P (all 9 mm) to limp wrist jam, but I can make a Glock 26 and Glock 19 do it.

I personally want my pistols to fire even with a less than perfect grip. That’s just my opinion though.

SteadyD said:

There are some platforms that are much more susceptible to limp wristing.

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Yes. I would add to this that the dirtier the chamber get the more susceptible it is to limit wristing as well. Especially on guns with tight (“match” ) chambers. My main semi auto is an m&p gen1. And with the factory barrel there’s never an issue but with either of my aftermarket barrels (silencer co. And storm lake that have match chambers, they can handle a limp wrist only when clean but after ~200 rounds become very susceptible and around 300 rounds it’s hard to keep it cycling properly when shooting one handed... scrub the chamber and all is well again

"Limp wristing" is a product of the limp wrist generation.

Unless you are rubbing the slide some how with your grip or have defective ammunition a weapon should function . Otherwise it is a defective weapon, defective design or production.

.308 Norma said:

Corpral_Agarn said:

limp wristing could have been a factor, but his grip could have also been part of it.

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getting "used to letting the gun roll up with recoil" can, and absolutely will cause problems when switching to semi-autos.

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Very good point.

When I train/share defensive point shooting, during introduction I go over various Hollywood movie myths and also many shooting myths.

One such is grip.

I bust the notion/myth that you must have a tight/death grip on the pistol to properly control the pistol recoil. So using various pistols from subcompact 9mm M&P Shield to fullsize 45ACP Sig 1911, I demonstrate shooting with just 2 fingers, thumb and third finger - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245649

Keep in mind, for training, I use lighter recoil target loads (which makes "limp wristing" worse) and also include factory ammunition so difference in recoil could be felt but I point out POI on target is not that much different for typical defensive distances.

Don't believe me? Try shooting your pistol with just 2 fingers next time you are at the range. And be prepared to have your tight grip notion shattered.

Jack Ryan said:

"Limp wristing" is a product of the limp wrist generation.

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You're wrong.

You should be embarrassed posting such a silly line.

I'll never understand folks trying to put down another 'generation' of shooters.

always makes me shake my head.

Corpral_Agarn said:

You're wrong.

You should be embarrassed posting such a silly line.

I'll never understand folks trying to put down another 'generation' of shooters.

always makes me shake my head.

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Shake yer head then, but my guns work. That rattling sound is a lot like those junk guns the salesmen convince people are fine and the problem is all the new buyer's "grip".

Jack Ryan said:

Shake yer head then, but my guns work.

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Congratulations.

Mine all work too. How is that related?

If you have something that works for you, then by all means, you do you.

You shouldn't feel the need to try to elevate yourself by putting others down. You sound... small, insecure.

Don't be a dingus.
Carry on.

Jack Ryan said:

That rattling sound is a lot like those junk guns the salesmen convince people are fine and the problem is all the new buyer's "grip".

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I have no idea what this means.

I started out shooting .38 SPL and .357 revolvers and my first semiauto was a Browning BDA, a gun that was pretty much "limp wrist proof". Over the years I've had some guns that had to be held with almost a death grip or they would have problems. I didn't keep any of those, and haven't had a problem gun in a long time. My Taurus PT111G2's are the only guns I have that I even have to hold firmly at all to function 100%, and they're nothing like the duds I had in the past. The worst one was my total trash Colt Combat Commander, which had so many problems it never should have left the factory. When I buy a gun these days, I try to make it "limpwrist" and if it does after it's got 100 or so rounds through it, it's gone.

I read about this on the internet. But I've never experienced it. Never been present when anyone else experienced it. And I've shot a lot of pistols over the years. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I just can't wrap my mind around the concept that a gun could be held so loosely that it won't function.

The SA trigger pulls on most semi-autos are in the 5-7 lb range. Some designed as target pistols will be lighter, some heavier. That means that anyone firing a pistol has to be squeezing the gun with about 5-7 lbs of pressure to even get it to fire. How do you limp wrist anything when you're squeezing the grip between your trigger finger and palm with 5-7 lbs of force.