What are/ were your LEAST favorite milsurps and why?

those french rifles just look awful i would say the mosins also, never appealed to me the straight bolt would have to be curve if i wanted to mount a scope not a scout scope that i dislike. yes grands are cool but the 308 in a auto, is big enough for me i would like a m-14 instead but pricey.

lionking said:

French MAS, no practical way to adjust windage which all but kills the fun of shooting it.

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The French did not trust their troops to monkey with the firearms and so used special security screws etc. The rifles were sighted at the arsenal with numbered and lettered backsight apertures tailored to each specific rifle.

This post by Lebel1886 on milsurps.com decodes the back sight ap needed to correct the sights for windage etc. https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=4479

boom boom said:

The French did not trust their troops to monkey with the firearms

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Would you trust the french to fiddle with rifles?

saiga308 said:

those french rifles just look awful

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actually they are not uncomfortable and the action is pretty slick, the lack of windage thing is what makes mine get shot just every once in a while just to remind myself yeah sucks that it shoots to the left. I suppose if I really wanted to get it fixed I could with the info that has been given on how to potentially do so but with all my other guns that I can shoot it is just meah whatever.

MosinT53Hunter said:

My short-owned 1917 Eddystone Enfield was probably the worse mil-surp rifle I have had. One of those you see, you fall in love with from a distance, then when you get up close and personal, its not as neat of a project as you had imagined. Mine was already sporterized, and I left it like that. Never shot it either, thought it was unsafe for full powered 30.06 rounds.

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A 1917 unsafe for full power 30-06?????? My 1917 has the biggest strongest action of any mil-surp I own. Due to the weight and sportster stock on mine it is a much nicer shooter than my 03A3 and plenty accurate with the military barrel. I can see not wanting the excessive weight of a 1917 for a hunting rifle... the thing is a beast!

I never warmed up to the Mosin Nagant bolt actions. To me they just aren't that nice of a rifle compared to many of the other surplus rifles. The Enfields never really did it for me either. Both are good rifles but neither impressed me like my 96 Sweeds.

I owned my French Mas 49/56 for 20 years before I shot it. Even though my 49/56 is in perfect condition (A buddy rekoned "never fired... only dropped once") it was French! Then I finally ordered some ammo for it and all my buddies were shocked at what a nice rifle that little Frenchy is! It is now one of my favorites, now that I have finally shot it!

MikeInOr said:

A 1917 unsafe for full power 30-06?????? My 1917 has the biggest strongest action of any mil-surp I own. Due to the weight and sportster stock on mine it is a much nicer shooter than my 03A3 and plenty accurate with the military barrel. I can see not wanting the excessive weight of a 1917 for a hunting rifle... thie thing is a beast!

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He mentioned heavy pitting in the metal beneath the wood in subsequent posts because I mentioned what a beast the p-14/m1917 action is. I consider he m1917 to be the best American bolt milsurp. Heavy, ugly, but awesome. I even like the dog leg, yeah I said that. The p-14 bolt face is ready to accept magnum chamberings but you gotta open up the 17. Just to convert to cock on open costs a small grip of cash so my unbarrelled
action will make a very stout and reliable paperweight for years to come.

MikeInOr said:

A 1917 unsafe for full power 30-06?????? My 1917 has the biggest strongest action of any mil-surp I own. Due to the weight and sportster stock on mine it is a much nicer shooter than my 03A3 and plenty accurate with the military barrel. I can see not wanting the excessive weight of a 1917 for a hunting rifle... thie thing is a beast!

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Then I better not show you the 1895 Argentine Mauser I bought then sold soon after....

fireside44 said:

He mentioned heavy pitting in the metal beneath the wood in subsequent posts because I mentioned what a beast the p-14/m1917 action is. I consider he m1917 to be the best American bolt milsurp. Heavy, ugly, but awesome. I even like the dog leg, yeah I said that. The p-14 bolt face is ready to accept magnum chamberings but you gotta open up the 17. Just to convert to cock on open costs a small grip of cash so my unbarrelled
action will make a very stout and reliable paperweight for years to come.

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I have never found that I have much preference between cock on open or cock on close. Either work fine for me in a smooth action... which the 1917 is a pretty smooth. Converting a 1917 to cock on open would be my last upgrade... you might find that you like the rifle just fine as a cock on close if you have a chance to shoot it... but you could also find that you don't.

I have been looking for a decently priced 1917 mil stock for 20 years and have never found one that was worth the money to me at the time. It is a pleasure to shoot even though it is in a sportster stock. I know the 1917's can be barreled for a big variety of heavy calibers but unfortunately my action and barrel are pretty pristine... I can't bear to bubba it... more than the sportster stock it came with.

Mosin 44. Not fun to shoot, not very accurate, ugly, I am not even sure why I bought it except it was cheap.

MikeInOr said:

A 1917 unsafe for full power 30-06?????? My 1917 has the biggest strongest action of any mil-surp I own. Due to the weight and sportster stock on mine it is a much nicer shooter than my 03A3 and plenty accurate with the military barrel. I can see not wanting the excessive weight of a 1917 for a hunting rifle... thie thing is a beast!

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Now, I didn't say all 1917 Eddystone Enfields. I know even the Japanese Arisaka receivers are very very strong. But it was my own experience that I was sharing. I don't like sporterized mil-surp rifles much, and like to restore them if possible. Now, the task at hand is what to do with the USGI Inland M1 Carbine I have that was already sporterized, and what I will do with it. Frankly, I don't know, but least I won't run out of projects.

MikeInOr said:

I have never found that I have much preference between cock on open or cock on close. Either work fine for me in a smooth action... which the 1917 is a pretty smooth.

I have been looking for a decently priced 1917 mil stock for 20 years and have never found one that was worth the money to me at the time. It is a pleasure to shoot even though it is in a sportster stock. I know the 1917's can be barreled for a big variety of heavy calibers but unfortunately my action and barrel are pretty pristine... I can't bear to bubba it... more than the sportster stock.

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Agreed. I have an unbarrelled action so I priced out what it would cost for a magnum caliber Sporter and my Smith recommended converting to a cock on open. Done that a couple times and each time I get a rather pricey rifle that will probably be outshot by a $600 Savage.

Richards microfit may have a stock available if you wanna wait 6 months. Lotta inletting work. If I had to go that route again for a milsurp I'd just make my own dang stock because not much more work would be involved haha.

MikeInOr said:

I never warmed up to the Mosin Nagant bolt actions. To me they just aren't that nice of a rifle compared to many of the other surplus rifles. The Enfields never really did it for me either. Both are good rifles but neither impressed me like my 96 Sweeds.

I owned my French Mas 49/56 for 20 years before I shot it. Even though my 49/56 is in perfect condition (A buddy rekoned "never fired... only dropped once") it was French! Then I finally ordered some ammo for it and all my buddies were shocked at what a nice rifle that little Frenchy is! It is now one of my favorites, now that I have finally shot it!

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They got a bad rep from the .308 conversions that the flying monkey brigade at Century did for them. The 7.5 French is actually a nice little number kinda like the Savage .300 cartridge in performance. The Mas 49/56 is a gas impingement design that simply works. Envy those that have them.

MosinT53Hunter said:

Now, I didn't say all 1917 Eddystone Enfields.

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The Eddy's get a bad rap cause they screwed the barrel on way tight and removal can crack the receiver. From my understanding there were never metallurgical issues with the Eddy's though that seems to be an often repeated rumor.

I have never taken to the M1916 Guardia Civil that I bought from SAMCO with my brand new, first-of-many 03FFL in February 2002.

I think that the sights are poor and have never really trusted (or liked) the old M93 action. Even though I long-ago scored a 1k case of 7.62x51CETME (and still have most of it), I have never been able to develop any real interest in the rifle.

Yes, early-on I testfired it (from a covered "safety" setup) with known-mild 7.62x51NATO and could not quite convince myself that it was, indeed, safe for that level of load despite the (in?) famous White Laboratory report.

fireside44 said:

Agreed. I have an unbarrelled action so I priced out what it would cost for a magnum caliber Sporter and my Smith recommended converting to a cock on open. Done that a couple times and each time I get a rather pricey rifle that will probably be outshot by a $600 Savage.

Richards microfit may have a stock available if you wanna wait 6 months. Lotta inletting work. If I had to go that route again for a milsurp I'd just make my own dang stock because not much more work would be involved haha.

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Want a 1917 action to sporter, 1917 bare actions that have already been sportered run about $100-200 on Gunbroker. Sarco did have some as well. Replica 1917 military stock runs have been made from time to time with the price about two bills. Numrich has had them in the past and Boyds made them at one time. The uncut real stocks have gotten pricey as have the uncut original barrels for these.

People often prefer the P14 action if you are going to a magnum cartridge requiring a bigger bolt face and a bit shorter magazine such as the .300 Win Mag. CAI converted a few P14's to .300 Win Mag and sold them as commercial sporters under the Centurion label--these appear on auction sites from time to time. A common 1917 sporter conversion in the day was to the .308 Norma Magnum as all it took was a chamber reamer. They pop up from time to time on Gunbroker. Both are a step up obviously from the original cartridges.

fireside44 said:

Agreed. I have an unbarrelled action so I priced out what it would cost for a magnum caliber Sporter and my Smith recommended converting to a cock on open. Done that a couple times and each time I get a rather pricey rifle that will probably be outshot by a $600 Savage.

Richards microfit may have a stock available if you wanna wait 6 months. Lotta inletting work. If I had to go that route again for a milsurp I'd just make my own dang stock because not much more work would be involved haha.

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I have a pair of Turk Mausers that I paid $30 each for back in the day. Someday when I have the time the rougher of the two (both are quite rough) will be my platform for trying to learn how to barrel my own action. Like you I have never found anyone that has come out ahead having a smith rebarrel an action.... except the smith. lol

fireside44 said:

The Eddy's get a bad rap cause they screwed the barrel on way tight and removal can crack the receiver. From my understanding there were never metallurgical issues with the Eddy's though that seems to be an often repeated rumor.

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A researcher on gunboards did find late post WWII era Army reports on problems with the Eddystone when these were being prepared to be surplused. He has posted the original documents that appear to be quite important if you have one of these.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...917-s-for-safety-issues-Eddystones-especially

boom boom said:

Want a 1917 action to sporter, 1917 bare actions that have already been sportered run about $100-200 on Gunbroker. Sarco did have some as well. Replica 1917 military stock runs have been made from time to time with the price about two bills. Numrich has had them in the past and Boyds made them at one time. The uncut real stocks have gotten pricey as have the uncut original barrels for these.

People often prefer the P14 action if you are going to a magnum cartridge requiring a bigger bolt face and a bit shorter magazine such as the .300 Win Mag. CAI converted a few P14's to .300 Win Mag and sold them as commercial sporters under the Centurion label--these appear on auction sites from time to time. A common 1917 sporter conversion in the day was to the .308 Norma Magnum as all it took was a chamber reamer. They pop up from time to time on Gunbroker. Both are a step up obviously from the original cartridges.

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I was gifted a bare p14 action many years ago. It's already had the ears removed but still requires some cosmetics, which arent a big deal. But aside from the bolt and action itself it's missing everything. I was pricing out what a heavy barrel 7 mag or stw would've cost which means no milsurp stocks, which means no real stock available at all except for Richards microfit. See post above, if you go with a Richards you might as well become a stock maker amd gain some real experience beyond inletting and sanding lots of additional wood away.

boom boom said:

A researcher on gunboards did find late post WWII era Army reports on problems with the Eddystone when these were being prepared to be surplused. He has posted the original documents that appear to be quite important if you have one of these.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...917-s-for-safety-issues-Eddystones-especially

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Interesting. In "bolt action rifles" by Wayne zwoll I recall him mentioning that it was the removal of way tight barrels that caused the cracking amd if you could remove the original square thread barrel without cracking the receiver you were good to go. Mine is an unbarrelled Eddy p14, no cracks.

If you notice the second post in the link you gave he talks about how they may have been rebarrelled during WWII which is possibly where the problem originated. I think if there had been a metallurgical problem from the get go it would've shown up long before that time. Also, it's common to eddystones but looking at production numbers eddystones were by far more produced than Winchester and Remington versions. I don't have the book I mentioned any longer but I wanna say 3x more Eddy's were produced than the other.

MosinT53Hunter said:

Then I better not show you the 1895 Argentine Mauser I bought then sold soon after....

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1895 Argentine Mauser (Chilean Mauser maybe???). I remember when the Chilean Mausers (arsenal converted????) to .308 were available for cheap. I thought I should have picked one up... something else was more important at the time.

Is it a heavier receiver than the 1917 receiver? All of my mauser actions are nice smooth operation actions but I haven't come across one with more steel than a 1917... that doesn't mean they don't exist though. I remember the Chilean Mausers being touted as very strong Mauser actions with very good metalurgy.

My Type 38 Arisaka, an absolute dog. Oh, it's not the original maker's fault, it's the fault of bubba. Bubba completely refinished the gun, without sporterizing it (except for bending the bolt handle), so it looks like a brand-new issued rifle, until you get up close. The worst thing bubba did, though, was rechamber it to .257 Roberts. He did this because the ammo was easier to find in the US than 6.5 Japanese. Nothing wrong with that, except for 1. It will not feed from the magazine, rendering the rifle a single shot, and 2. It is now extremely inaccurate. I mean, it's like a joke rifle that you give to your friends in order to embarrass them. I describe the accuracy as "Minute of County" (if you fire the rifle, and the round hits somewhere in the same county, that's as good as it gets). That's how bad it is. I never shoot it and use it as a display gun only, and as a reminder of foolish choices I've made....

BCR#1 said:

I collect bolt guns from the main powers during WW II but a jap anything will never grace the inside of my safes.

Bill

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Strong words, but weren't the early Type 99s considered to be really nice guns? Later last ditch stuff was dicey so I hear but the late 30s was a pretty good time for Japanese gun smiths weren't they?

MosinT53Hunter said:

I have had my fair share of Mosin Nagants, most of the long variation, and most have gone down the road. I have one now, and its my favorite, the T53 Chinese Mosin Nagant carbine. She won't win any beauty pageants, but she is a keeper all the same .

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Saw one listed by someone down the block from me on armslist a few weeks ago and i'm kicking myself for not having the money to have run down the street in my robe and slippers with a loose handful of cash

boom boom said:

Trick to the Arisaka safety is use the heel of your hand to push in and move the safety knob to the right or left. The trick for the Mosin safety is to not use it and do like Bfh_auto suggests above.

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That is the proper operation, but it's still years behind everything except the Mosin.