It's less of an issue with some pistols than others but it's rather common to see it happen with novices, especially ones with weaker, lower mass hands and arms
How much does "limp wristing" affect attitudes towards semi-autos?
- Thread starter George Dickel
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unlock your elbow and lighten your grip; that is how to "limp wrist". the unlocked elbow is the key, so keep that elbow locked (or as close to locked as you can get) and keep a firm grip throughout your follow-through for limp-wrist-less shooting.
murf
murf
Reeferman
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That was happening to me until I realized what I was doing. Didn’t happen with 1911’s but did any Tupperware guns.
I have bought way to many pistols in the last 20 years. Other than a bur in a new mag or a slightly rough chamber I can't remember any function issues. I do shoot with a rotated and locked support hand but I haven't really had any issues shooting one handed either.
That said I have certainly seen people that have issues. Glocks and.LCPs seem.to give a lot of.people problems. I know people think manufacturers blame issues on users way to much but based on what I see they may have a reason for that.
That said I have certainly seen people that have issues. Glocks and.LCPs seem.to give a lot of.people problems. I know people think manufacturers blame issues on users way to much but based on what I see they may have a reason for that.
Years ago, Jeff Cooper did the same. His goal was to show that you don't have to be a he-man to control a .45 ACP 1911.
My brother took a friend shooting, and they used my brother's FN-something. The gun runs very reliably for my brother. It failed to extract and feed on at least 50% of the shots for his friend. My brother was so puzzled by this he took slow-motion video to see what was happening, because his friend swore he was gripping hard.
Sure enough, we watched the video, and it was soft-elbows causing the problem. He wasn't letting the gun pivot radically in his hand (although, as is very common, his left hand was losing grip and adding almost no recoil control), but his forearms were pivoting at the elbow quite a bit. The slide wasn't completing its rearward stroke because the soft-elbows were "cushioning" the gun too much.
I'd also add that the recoil spring is a significant factor. Lots of manufacturers know that people will not replace recoil springs frequently, so they often overspring (IMO) the guns. A stiff recoil spring combined with softer/practice ammo and anything but a very stiff human platform can cause FTE/FTF problems.
For instance, I have a commander-sized 1911 that came very stiffly sprung. For a long time, it would function with full-powered ammo only, and would jam 1-2 times per mag on any target-level loads. Only as the spring got broken in did it get tolerably reliable with mid-range and lighter loads.
Years ago I bought my wife a P-32 for concealed carry. It stovepiped every time for her, but ran reliably for me. Since she really isn’t into shooting, the KelTec became mine and I bought her a revolver.
Good points on it being the elbow and not the wrist that’s the problem, and on not using the “limp wrist” term.
Good points on it being the elbow and not the wrist that’s the problem, and on not using the “limp wrist” term.
I guess that explains why I never have the issue even single.handed.
FL-NC
Member
I saw a lot of this in the army when I was training support soldiers with the M9.
This is the correct answer.
I've never seen a properly operating pistol that "limp wristing" could cause to malfunction.
I've also heard limp wristing used as a catchall, when the speaker doesn't know what the hell is actually going on.
It used to be easy to intentionally induce it in a G19 but it's possible it's been fixed as that was years ago. I also expect you see a big difference between cheap target ammo that's 115 gr and under 1100 fps and some of the NATO Pressure stuff (Like the new M1152) that's over 1300 fps even though still 115 gr. No support and no recoil is bad juju.
WestKentucky
Member
Proper grip is a wierd thing. On a SA revolver it’s all about letting the revolver do it’s thing as the shot breaks. On a DA revolver it’s all about control before the shot and simply hanging on. On semiauto pistols it’s control through the shot. All three have inherent issues and quirkiness that may make them difficult for some shooters. That’s why we have different preferences on what we shoot.
WestKentucky
Member
Old school pocket .380s are among the worst. I had a grendel p10 that Bigfoot maybe could have emptied, but no human I ever met could. I could get it to run maybe 3 or 4 but my wife couldn’t ever get more than 2. Was worse as it got emptier as the ammo weight wasn’t mitigating recoil. Blowback and heavy recoil seem to be huge factors in limpwristing, but most semiauto pistols can be forced to do a limpwrist fail.
Hokie_PhD
Member
A friend of mine taught me to shoot using his 1911.
This taught me not to limp wrist.
And at first, I had an issue with it until I learned really good form.
This came in handy as my first pistol was a PF9. Like the 1911, I had to grip it properly or I’d get problems. And it’s why I suggest many complain about the PF9 as it’s a snappy gun that’ll jamb if you limp wrist it.
On the other end of the spectrum, my 5” M&P 9mm is so soft shooting, I suspect it’s pretty forgiving.
Waterboy3313
Member
My first CCW class a few years ago I used my Kimber TLE II. Towards the end of the class the instructor offered people a chance to shoot his pistols or anyone who wanted to try someone else's etc. One of my friends who mainly shoots revolvers tried my Kimber and stove piped it 3 or 4 times. After the instructor educated him several times and called him Charlie's Angel he finally figured it out. In all the rounds I've put through it I never had any issues with it until the extractor got some build up on it where I couldn't see it. After correcting the issue it's back to working flawless. I've also shot several magazines through it one handed with my left hand.
George Dickel
Member
As far as my Micro 9 being defective, no! My grandson and granddaughter who is barely 5' tall, have shot it with no problem, my 3 nephews put about 150 rounds through it one day with no malfunctions. I have allowed numerous friends to shoot it with no problems. I have not had a malfunction with it either. The guy at the range that day was doing something wrong and I couldn't see what it was. His target he was shooting with his .327 revolver was about 10' away and he was shooting patterns with it. Defective shooter not a defective gun.
roval
Member
it is an overused diagnosis for any malfunction in a semiauto.
I carry a 1911 or a 686 and it is very likely that limp wristing will affect the function of the gun and I prove it all the time when I am with a novice shooter. I'll demonstrate to them with my 911 a .380 caliber by shooting a full magazine and than the second magazine by not holding the gun firmly and allowing my wrist to break and sure enough I'll get a stove pipe. I demonstrate it to the novice shooters so that if they buy a semi of a larger caliber and this happens that this can be one of the main reasons beside a magazine follower problem.
SwampWolf
Member
If this is true, that is, all or most semi-auto pistols are susceptible to malfunctioning if they are not gripped in a less than ideal manner (and like some others in this thread, I'm not buying that argument because my experience with many semi-auto pistols over the past many years suggests otherwise), then I would never depend on a semi-auto pistol for use in self-defense.
Way too many times for various reasons (to include having slippery hands from blood or sweat and/or having to shoot with the "weak" hand), getting any handgun into play from cover in highly stressed circumstances is going to result in it being grasped in a less than firm grip.
I really don't have any scientific data and it is understandable that you don't believe that but what other explanation can I give when I can duplicate frequently with the .380. So it seems very plausible.
SwampWolf
Member
One "theory" might be that while your particular .380 pistol jams when being held in a certain way, doesn't mean that it is a valid argument to extrapolate your experience with one semi-auto pistol to embrace the same likelihood of a malfunction with all semi-auto pistols. That's one possible "explanation".
When I first got my DE44, it used to lock up a lot. I changed from the "isosceles grip " to straight-arm, and locked the elbow on my right arm.
All the lock-ups stopped. Consequently, I also haven't had a lock-up, on any auto-loader, since I started shooting my DE44 well. That pistol is like a limp-wrist
detector.
Two takeaways from this:
1-It aint the gun, trust me. Bad mags or mag springs aside, the gun will do it's job, if you do yours, which is to support the frame during the auto-loading process.
2-If you can rent or borrow a Desert Eagle, you can work out the problem for yourself. Whatever you usually shoot or carry is easily half the weight of a Desert Eagle.
All the lock-ups stopped. Consequently, I also haven't had a lock-up, on any auto-loader, since I started shooting my DE44 well. That pistol is like a limp-wrist
detector.
Two takeaways from this:
1-It aint the gun, trust me. Bad mags or mag springs aside, the gun will do it's job, if you do yours, which is to support the frame during the auto-loading process.
2-If you can rent or borrow a Desert Eagle, you can work out the problem for yourself. Whatever you usually shoot or carry is easily half the weight of a Desert Eagle.
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