223 for whitetail under 150 yards?

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All the deer I've killed have been with .270 or .243, so I haven't shot one with .223. However, I have shot lots of critters with .223 and know I can shoot one between the eyes with my .223 reloads; they are wicked accurate and I would have absolute faith in the bullet and my rifles as long as I do my part.
 
Skilled hunters will tell you, there is no substitute for a large caliber, slow moving bullet. BUT you have to be able to shoot well.
Seriously? These is white tail deer.
Being skilled has everything to do with knowing the effective range of you and your weapon.
 
Would the 223 be a viable deer cartridge at this range i would use heavier constructed bullets but ive several deer take a heart shot from a 270win and still manage to run 30+ yards so im hesitant.
Yes it is viable. I shot one at 60 yds with a Vmax and it flopped like lightning struck it. We never found the 22 cal hole and there was no exit.
.243 Win is the smallest I'd go. If I had to go with a .223 caliber round, I'd go with a fast-twist .22-250 rather than the .223 Remington.
At 100 yds a 55 gr. Vmax shot to the neck or heart/ lung area is going to kill that deer as fast or faster than a fast twist 22-250. It causes massive internal damage
 
I'd just use a 243 instead. Rather than worrying about limited range, or buying premium bullets, or only taking favorable shots, I can just load my 243 with Core Lokts and not worry about any of that. It's up for any shot that I feel comfortable with taking.
 
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Would the 223 be a viable deer cartridge at this range i would use heavier constructed bullets but ive several deer take a heart shot from a 270win and still manage to run 30+ yards so im hesitant.
You didn't mention whether you handload or how familiar you are with the .223. barrel twist will make a difference, period, shop accordingly. Use good bullets and place them properly and you'll be fine.
.243 Win is the smallest I'd go. If I had to go with a .223 caliber round, I'd go with a fast-twist .22-250 rather than the .223 Remington.
You ought to try a 12 twist -250 with the 50 gr ttsx, I'll warn you, take an ice pack, your cheeks will hurt from the grin....
 
I use to also be in the 223 is inadequate camp, but I think back to the yotes that I’ve shot with a 223 at way longer ranges than I shoot deer and at bad angles and so forth, and I just can’t look at the results I get from that and say no this isn’t adequate to kill a deer. I don’t shoot shoulders and I have never shot a deer at any angle that a 223 would not have had adequate penetration for. So all the deer I’ve ever shot I could have killed ethically with a 223.

Now with all that said I do have one counterpoint to make. If you happen to hunt in really dense heavy brush like I do, you might be making a lot of work for yourself tracking and recovering the deer. The trend I see in going smaller and smaller in caliber is that the deer still die in the same amount of time pretty much regardless of what you shoot them with, but they sure do bleed a whole lot less shooting them with small diameter bullets. I would expect little to no blood trail with a heart shot with a 223. That’s not a big deal if your hunting fields or open spaces, but it’s a huge problem in a swamp or slough. For that reason I really like 30+ caliber. Not because it kills better, it just makes finding them a whole lot easier. Really like my 358 yeti and 444!
 
I was very against using a .223 on deer for many years. Over the last few couple of years I’ve done a 180 and now believe they are fine for deer. Like Legionnaire if I were to hunt deer using a .224 cartridge it would be a 1:7 22-250.

Texas whitetail are a textbook example of Bergmann’s Rule. I’m talking free range deer, not high fence deer. So because of Bergmann’s rule geography does come into play when it comes to deer hunting with a .223. If I lived say in Alberta I might still believe .223 is inadequate for deer since they get so much bigger there than in Texas.
 
I use to also be in the 223 is inadequate camp, but I think back to the yotes that I’ve shot with a 223 at way longer ranges than I shoot deer and at bad angles and so forth, and I just can’t look at the results I get from that and say no this isn’t adequate to kill a deer. I don’t shoot shoulders and I have never shot a deer at any angle that a 223 would not have had adequate penetration for. So all the deer I’ve ever shot I could have killed ethically with a 223.

Now with all that said I do have one counterpoint to make. If you happen to hunt in really dense heavy brush like I do, you might be making a lot of work for yourself tracking and recovering the deer. The trend I see in going smaller and smaller in caliber is that the deer still die in the same amount of time pretty much regardless of what you shoot them with, but they sure do bleed a whole lot less shooting them with small diameter bullets. I would expect little to no blood trail with a heart shot with a 223. That’s not a big deal if your hunting fields or open spaces, but it’s a huge problem in a swamp or slough. For that reason I really like 30+ caliber. Not because it kills better, it just makes finding them a whole lot easier. Really like my 358 yeti and 444!
Well put. Bigger bullets make bigger leaks. Bigger leaks make it easier to track. I've noticed similar results from a 200 gr 40 cal at 2400 fps as a 100 gr at 3400 or a 55 at 4000. Only difference was the amount of blood on the ground.
 
Seriously? These is white tail deer.
Being skilled has everything to do with knowing the effective range of you and your weapon.

And my point is if you can't shoot, don't go hunting.

Besides, if a large caliber slow moving bullet isn't effective, please tell me where all the buffalo roamed off to?
 
And my point is if you can't shoot, don't go hunting.

Besides, if a large caliber slow moving bullet isn't effective, please tell me where all the buffalo roamed off to?
I agree with the don't hunt if you can't shoot, but you're using much larger game as a base line for what cartridge is adequate.
If we were talking elk it something like that, I'd agree with you 100 percent.
Deer die easy if you hit the heart and lungs or cns. A 22 hornet has killed a lot of deer and 223 is way up from that.
 
I think it would be fine providing you used a good bullet, and placed it where it needed to go. In fact, in my area, I'm rarely gonna get a shot over 50 or 75 yds, so it would work out well, but it doesn't matter, my state won't allow it anyway.
 
Far too many deer fall every year to 223’s for anyone to question the efficacy of the round on deer. And deer of any size.

Folks who tend to condemn the 223 as too small for deer tend to fall into two camps: 1) the vast majority which have never used a 223 for deer, and 2) the small vocal minority which has used a 223 for deer, but apparently can’t shoot worth a damn and had one bad experience.

I never recommend the 223 for deer, even for youth shooters, but the reality is there: using any non-Varmint type bullet, the 223rem is plenty “enough stuff” for deer.
 
The .223 will not be more effective than the 270.

Don’t know about deer but 55 gn FMJ’s are not as effective as 52 gn JHP’s intended for varmints, on hogs in a trap. I suppose in the end they are but the JHP to the noggin is like a light switch.
 
The .223 will not be more effective than the 270.

Don’t know about deer but 55 gn FMJ’s are not as effective as 52 gn JHP’s intended for varmints, on hogs in a trap. I suppose in the end they are but the JHP to the noggin is like a light switch.

Excellent point. .223 is at it's best with fast controlled expansion bullet. FMJ 5.56 bullets have no place in hunting. The same is true of the surplus 7.62 or other FMJ rounds. They are not legal in my state for big game..
 
I've had deer run 100 yards after having a 165 gr 30-06 bullet destroy both lungs and leave a 3" exit hole on the off side and I've had deer drop in their tracks from 223. Neither should be considered typical. Whether a deer is DRT or runs depends more on the individual animal than what you hit it with. With a good shot most animals will die within 10-15 seconds. It is what they decide to do during that last 10-15 seconds that matters. Some lie down, others run.

On deer, or deer size game within certain range limitations and proper bullet choice 223 kills them as dead as anything else. Bullet choice is critical though. Most 223 ammo is either designed for varmints, target shooting or combat. Loads for big game hunting aren't common and you have to search them out. If you choose a varmint, target, or combat load for your 30-06 it will fail to cleanly kill a deer too.

There are however some bullets initially designed for target shooting that have proven very capable as hunting bullets. But not all, if you choose a target bullet I'd recommend some research to see how others have faired with them. Some work as well if not better than hunting bullets, others are a mess waiting to happen.

Although I have complete faith that a 223 will kill deer I rarely hunt with mine. I'm not willing to accept the limitations. Where I hunt black bear season overlaps most of deer season and 223 ain't a bear round. And while most of my shots would be well within the range limitations of 223 I don't want to have to pass on a longer shot where a bigger cartridge would be sufficient.
 
jmorris; that would be partly true if he had said the limited fire arm zone, but he didn't he said "Michigan".
Even in the limited fire arm zone you can use bottle neck center fire in some places so that would not be 100% correct.
 
I don’t have any dog in the hunt so to speak but if someone went with your statement and was in the wrong place in your State, they would be breaking the law, in Michigan.
 
Well, this is one of those questions bound to open a can of worms. Many feel the cartridge is inadequate for deer, others feel it's fine.

I doubt you will get a consensus.
That's pretty much how it always goes. All state laws apply and many states spell out what is permissible for deer, some by cartridge and some by minimum bullet diameter. I always deer hunted in West Virginia simply because West Virginia allows the use of rifle and back then my home state of Ohio didn't. That has changed but Ohio limits deer hunting to straight wall cartridges and list which cartridges may be used. Hunt game using a cartridge you feel comfortable using and a legal cartridge for your state you are hunting in.

Would I use a .223 Remington as a deer cartridge? No I wouldn't but not because I feel a 223 Remington is inadequate but simply because I have many other rifles more suited for deer hunting so I was never confronted with making the choice. In West Virginia my cartridge of choice was the 44 Remington Magnum and I also liked the 444 Marlin. My longest shot was likely 100 yards with many in the 30 to 50 yard range. My friend and West Virginia native used either a 30-30 Winchester lever gun or an SKS 7.62 X 39.

Ron
 
I knew an old Cajun fella that I’m pretty sure killed more deer than everyone in this thread combined and he did it with a 22LR and a spot light.

So yeah, a .223 will kill a deer

is that the point of this thread?
 
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