Hey everyone new here. So been doing a lot of research and I can’t find this answer anywhere so hopefully you guys can help me out. I’m currently getting ready to get an 07 FFL to sell guns obviously, and to build custom AR15 for clients and sell them. What I am curious about is will my 07 FFL allow me to assemble and sell them, or do I as well need a gunsmith certificate? Thanks in advance.
FFL for building AR
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Kp321
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Do your research. An 01 license is dealer/ gunsmith, 07 is firearm manufacturer. There are all types of ins and outs on what you can and cannot do with either license, determined by the attitude of the officer auditing your operation. I guarantee each officer will have his own interpretation of the rules. An 07 license also opens the door to ITAR rules. I operated a Gunsmith shop for 40 years with an 01 license only. I “built” a few AR’s along the way, always on the customers stripped lower. The last interpretation of the law was, if you supply the lower, you are building a rifle. If you put parts into a customers lower, you are repairing it.
Please don’t go strictly on my experience, talk with your local ATF office. Like I said, every officer seems to read the laws differently.
Please don’t go strictly on my experience, talk with your local ATF office. Like I said, every officer seems to read the laws differently.
RickD427
Member
Please see the Fourth Circuit's decision in Broughman v Carver. It gives a very complete analysis to the differences between an FFL01 and FFL07 with regard to the assembly of firearms from component parts.
I have done the research and most lowers will be supplied by myself and not customer, in this case it would count as manufacturing for that. What I am asking though is do I also need a gunsmith certificate to do these things as well, or if the FFL is all I needed for it. But I am certain for what I want to do at minimum I will need the 07 FFL.
Since you are planning on doing this for a living, get adequate legal advice from a firearms law expert. It is a deductible business expense in that case and make sure that you also set your company up as some sort of LLC or other corporate form. Firearms manufacturing would be in the class of high liability both civil and legal so get good legal advice from a lawyer(s) in your state.
BSA1
member
Definitely get help from a lawyer with setting up your business. Since you are going to be manufacturing the guns you hope to sell buy a LOT of insurance. A wrongful death or grievous injury lawsuit could cost you multi-millions of $$,$$$,$$$.00.
Training from a reputable gunsmith school along with taking college/ technical classes in metal work and welding would be a big plus. A sharp lawyer could make your lack of formal education and training look like you are a graduate of “Bubba’s Hold my Beer and Watch This” school of learning.
Training from a reputable gunsmith school along with taking college/ technical classes in metal work and welding would be a big plus. A sharp lawyer could make your lack of formal education and training look like you are a graduate of “Bubba’s Hold my Beer and Watch This” school of learning.
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dogtown tom
Member
Really?How much research have you done at atf.gov?
Of course, that why its called an "07- Manufacturer of Firearms Other than Destructive Devices"
No such thing.
dogtown tom
Member
1. "officers" don't do compliance inspections, audits or inspections. That for the IOI (Industry Operations Investigators) ................beancounters.
2. "Attitude"? They'll show the licensee the appropriate citation from the CFR/ATF regs.
3. What you can and cannot do is clearly spelled out at ATF.gov. An IOI's attitude has nothing to do with anything.
IOI's are not allowed to interpret the rules.
Only until March 9th.
Correct.
Never.
ALWAYS........read the regs yourself at ATF.gov
The verbal advice from an IOI is worth the paper its printed on. IOI's are only supposed to refer you to the applicable regulation/ruling or federal law.
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herrwalther
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You do not need a gunsmithing certificate or degree in order to be a 07 FFL. It sure would help, but it is not mandatory. AR15s are under a microscope right now and will be for awhile. You can protect yourself more by being 07 than 01.
dogtown tom
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Protect yourself from what exactly?
herrwalther
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Protect yourself from what exactly?
See post #3.
dogtown tom
Member
Being that the OP clearly stated he was going to get an 07FFL....post #3 has nothing to do with anything. Post #3 references what happens when a person manufacturing does not possess a manufacturers license.
Thats why post #3 and yours are nonsensical warnings to someone that doesn't need warning. HE KNOWS what FFL type he needs.
herrwalther
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Thats why post #3 and yours are nonsensical warnings to someone that doesn't need warning. HE KNOWS what FFL type he needs.
Right because this sounds like a nonsensical question. My "warning" was nothing more than helpful advice. Wheras your nonsense is just well nonsense. Do not attempt a response, as I will not see it. Have a good one.
dogtown tom
Member
No, your "warning" was nonsensical. It's the equivalent of someone telling you they are flying to Florida for vacation and you warning them to avoid China.
Your advice wasn't helpful in the least BECAUSE THE OP ALREADY SAID HE WAS GETTING AN 07FFL.
So basically you were warning the OP to protect himself by getting an 07FFL...that he already stated he was getting? Yes, helpful advice.
It looks like the topic has been covered.
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