Slow Velocity with CFE 223 and 62 grain gold dots?

Hodgdon shows 2900fps with a 25gr charge and a 24" barrel.

With your 16" barrel I think you are exactly in the ball park of where it should be.

My 16” 1/7 twist AR did not like 62 Gr. Slow and not so great groups. The best velocity was with Ramshot TAC. Slowest was BL-C(2). Velocities are also considering best grouping.

My rifle loves 75 gr Hornady BTHP #2279 bullets using TAC and Accurate 2520. Tests were done with FC or LC brass.

My listed groups are at 50 yds.



http://edjean.com/loading-223-with-tac-hornady-75-gr-bthp-2279/

http://edjean.com/loading-223-with-a2520-hornady-75-gr-bthp-2279/

The_Savage said:

Howdy all,

Just got into reloading, and I finally chronoed my 223 load after finding a good accuracy for it. However, I'm getting 2400 fps average from a 16" AR-15 barrel using 62 grain speer gold dots and 25.5 grains of CFE223 powder. Is my powder scale messed up? Is the weather too cold? (30 degrees F, 591' elevation)

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Use a factory box of ammo as a sanity check. For 223 factory ammo I always assume a 20 or 24" test barrel. You could also grab a set of check weights to verify your scale. I find them very helpful and can be considered a safety item.

Speer list their 62 gr. GD with CFE-223 @ 26.0 gr. max load for a velocity of 3141 fps. Their COAL is 2.230", Federal case and Federal 205 primer.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/reloading/rifle

The_Savage said:

So I weighed one of the 62 grain bullets with the scale, and it was on. I'm going to try 26 grains of powder and a 2.230 COAL tomorrow, and also test some factory loads. I guess I should ask this: do I even need more velocity? Assuming a hunting usage for this cartridge.

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You do not need more velocity if your increased powder charges lead to blown, pierced, leaking primers. Gotta tell you, load them hot in cold weather and you will be seeing smoke coming out of the loading port in spring, when those rounds blow primers.

As @AJC1 said, use factory ammunition as a check. Personally, I am surprised your chronograph works in 30 degree weather as mine would not. If I placed the battery on the vehicle dash and warmed them up to the range, my chronograph would function until the batteries got cold. But, without a "standard", you really don't know if it is your ammunition, the weather, or chronograph misalignment. Or, everything is working as it should and you are getting 2400 fps for real. I don't move too fast in 30 degree weather and neither will your bullets.

With a 20" barrel, if I pushed 68 grain match bullets near 2800 fps, I got pierced primers. I kept my 75 Hornady Match less than 2700 fps or I had problems. Per my chronograph, 73 Berger Moly Coat, Black Hills went 2724 fps. And you have four inches less barrel, maybe what you are seeing is real.

And if it is, I would look real hard at what you are hunting. If it is gophers, it is OK. If it is poodles, maybe the small poodles, but not the French Poodles. All this round has is velocity, and when that is gone, might as well be tossing atlatl's.





So, test the factory ammunition, test your reloads. If you have blown, leaking, pierced primers, cut your loads by a half grain, and continue cutting until all pressure indications go away. And ignore published numbers, or the numbers on your chronograph. What you get will be: it is what it is.

Cfe223 is somewhat slow powder and needs more barrel to get full velocity. General rule with rie powders is 35 to 60 fps loss per inch of barrel. Test barrel for velocity would likely be 24 inches, so at 16 you are down by 8. Your 25.5 grains at 2900 fps less 400-500 fps seems right in line with your results. A heavier powder charge may have less additional velocity than you may hope for as its just more gas for muzzle blast. Try a slightly faster powder for the short barrels.

That seems pretty slow, I've never been 500 fps under book velocity in a 16".

I chrono'd my 55gr 8208 handloads at just under 2,700 fps and AE xm193 at ~2,750 fps out of my 10.5" last weekend. Those are both 55gr so 7gr lighter, but also with 5.5" less barrel. My 69gr and 75gr loads chrono a little over 2,800 fps and ~2,730 fps out of my 18" AR respectively, for comparison. I have read that CFE 223 is particularly temp sensitive, so maybe that's part of the issue.

Just curious, so going from 25.5 to 26 got you some of the velocity you were looking for but accuracy suffered.
Did you ladder from 25.5 to 26? Only reason I ask is sometimes .2 gr can make a difference in how accurate a load shoots.

Overall I like Ramshot TAC for .223, it seems to shoot well for me and meters well from my measure.
TAC is a bit faster burning than CFE-223
80 VihtaVuori N133
81 Hodgdon BENCHMARK
82 Hodgdon H335
83 Ramshot X-Terminator
84 Accurate Arms 2230
85 Accurate Arms 2460s
86 IMR, Co IMR 8208 XBR
87 Ramshot TAC
88 Hodgdon H4895
89 VihtaVuori N530
90 IMR, Co IMR 4895
91 VihtaVuori N135
92 Alliant Reloder 12
93 Accurate Arms 2495BR
94 IMR, Co IMR 4166
95 IMR, Co IMR 4064
96 NORMA 202
97 Accurate Arms 4064
98 Accurate Arms 2520
99 Alliant Reloder 15
100 VihtaVuori N140
101 Hodgdon VARGET
102 IMR, Co IMR 4320
103 Winchester 748
104 Hodgdon BL-C(2)
105 Hodgdon CFE 223
106 Hodgdon LEVEREVOLUTION

Lots of people like H335 for .223, it also meters well if that matters to you.
I have not tried everything in .223 (lots of things to try) I would place what I have tried in this order
TAC, 8208XBR and BLC(2) [tie], H335

2000MR is a pretty slow burning powder and could be too slow for your AR causing problems with the gas system. I'm guessing that if you turned the lights off, the muzzle flash would be quite impressive from all the unburned powder.

Take a look at the list Dudedog posted. 335, 8208XBR, 4895, and TAC are all popular powders for 50-60 grain class bullets.

The_Savage said:

But the published data...

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I have a friend that likes CFE223 but he is running over max loads, in an 18 inch AR- with a rifle length gas system, and a 24" bolt gun. I think the powder likes to be run hot.

I rarely look at the velocity numbers of published data as it depends on a lot of things including barrel length, pressure, throat, etc. Some of those powders may not come to life until 20 inches down the barrel.

Glad Power Pro 2000 worked out for you.
Sometimes guns just seem to prefer one powder over another.

I was going to comment on how much stretch your getting on the brass. Indicates your over gassed. There are several ways to correct this. One is the use of heavy buffers, the other adj gas block. I actually use both along and a silent capture RS setup.

If you have a lightened bolt that's working against you. If you have it dialed in right the brass should eject in the 3:00-4:30 direction. Also it will not dent up the brass as much for it's not hitting and bouncing forward.

Ejection pattern does not always indicate that you are overgassed.

Just a guess but I think you would be ripping case rims off if there was still pressure in the chamber and barrel when the bolt unlocks.

He's getting excessive stretching in the brass, which is a indicator of extracting the brass a little too early, under higher pressure.