Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

Good shooting by you and your wife- sounds like you two cleaned up!

I have heard good things about the Hornady Black Diamond BBs, and after hearing your report I need to retry them in a few guns, I only tested with them one time and they did well, but the Daisy Match Grade did marginally better on that day, in those guns. Since then a lot of time has gone by and I have shot a few of my guns thousands of times more, so I should be a better shot. Emphasis on should! lol

midland man said:

hey do you have a couple of these hp springs for daisy red rider model 1938b if so please pm me how much shipped for two springs! thanks!

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Sorry for the late reply- I've been locked out of logging in since I cleared my cookies some time ago. long story short I had to create a new email acct. to get back here!

Please check your messages.

Thanks, Mark

So I've been getting more and more messages asking about what tools are needed to disassemble a Daisy BB gun. The caulking gun for assembling the plunger assembly is easy, all that is needed to make it work is a bushing of some sort. I use a suspension washer because that's what fell to hand when I went to the shop digging around for something suitable to use. A large fender washer cut in two works just as well, if not better. Unless a HP spring is being used, a tool isn't even necessary.

Even though the plunger fork can be made by most hobbyists, some folks just don't have the time, tools, workspace, or the inclination to make one. To help those people, I found a tool online and I found it works quite well. My tool (shown below) is the "medium" version of three that are offered. There's an economy model and a deluxe model with replaceable forks as well. They come with excellent instructions, too. The fellow who makes these tools is a genuinely good guy, easy to deal with and he stands behind what he sells, so I recommend his tools to anyone who's in need. These tools can be seen HERE.

We've often talked about the virtues of using the Daisy model No. 25 shot tube to replace the gravity feed shot tubes in guns so equipped. One downside has been the supposed plastic barrel cap used on the new 25 shot tubes.

Well, it turns out the caps are not plastic after all! I have a shot tube here that I have been using for MV testing for several years. It has seen many, many thousands of BB's run through it and it has been used in so many different guns that I lost count. It has started to show a little wear to the cap, and at first I didn't understand where it had picked up a silver deposit on the plastic cap, but after a closer look, I saw that the silver was the color of the cap under the paint. So, I used a VOM to check if the cap is conductive, and it is. I don't know yet what type of metal it is made from because I've not removed the cap yet (it's held on the end of the tube by a roll pin). Safe bet that it's either a zinc or aluminum alloy, though.

A word on why I use the 25 shot tube to test MV. The quality and performance of gravity feed tubes vary, and then when wear is added the result is a huge variable when testing a gun's performance. By substituting the 25 shot tube, the true condition of the gun's powerplant can be determined. Then when the results are compared to the same gun with the original gravity feed tube installed, the condition of the original shot tube can be determined. For testing, it's not necessary to use any spacers to make the 25 tube fit the shroud of the gun being tested. I just screw it in snug and test over the chronograph. A few wraps of masking tape around the 25 tube's end cap is used so the cap fits the shroud ID.

I'm 95% sure the No. 25 shot tube's end cap is a zinc alloy, it's definitely too heavy to be aluminum.

I decided to shorten a 25 shot tube so I could use it without a spacer in a model 96 I have. It's a nice shooting gun in very decent condition. I replaced the trigger with one from a model 99, and Shane refinished a Daisy 99 stock that I put on it. The gravity feed shot tube works well enough, but I just like the 25 tube more, so...

The process of shortening the shot tube went easily enough, it entails taking about 0.200" off the muzzle end of the inner BB tube and the outer shot tube 'cover' and taking a bit off the BB follower so it clears the fill hole when fully retracted. I should have taken a smidgen off of the spring, too, but I thought the spring could absorb the difference in length. But I found the spring wants to bulge out of the fill hole when the follower is pushed forward to lock it for filling the magazine- so I should have taken the same amount off of the spring as I did everything else. I used a bench grinder since the amount to remove wasn't very much, but a hacksaw or dremel could work, too. I cleaned the ends up with a dremel and recrowned the shot tube using a cratex point in the dremel. NOTE- The amount to remove from the shot tube can vary from gun to gun, so measure for the gun that the tube is going in before proceeding. On all the gravity feed guns I have around here, taking off 1/4" would make a shot tube that would fit them all. I hate giving away ANY length of the shot tube, but the 25 tube is already 1/4" longer than most gravity feed tubes, plus it's more efficient, so it's still a better option in my opinion.

The only touchy part was drilling the hole through the outer cover for the roll pin. The edge of the hole is 0.038" from the end of the cover. On this one, I installed the end cap and used a spring-loaded center punch through the holes in the cap to mark the outer cover for drilling. Once the holes were in the outer cover, all that was left was to reassemble it, and that is straightforward and was uneventful.

Unfortunately, when I installed the shortened 25 tube into the 96, the shot tube cap is causing the shroud to spread at the seam when it's tightened down. I should have test fit the cap into the end of the shroud when the shot tube was apart, so it's on me. I am considering my options for removing some material from the cap OD, but I've not decided on a method yet. Any ideas come to mind?

Speaking of Shane the stock maker, he's also an accomplished airgunsmith. More of his work can be seen at his eBay store, Rest-O-Mod. Among his many projects, he's recently been hand making the components to turn a 111-40 into a "reverse cocker", aka "cock on closing" gun!

A little history: Daisy only made a few models having this feature and all of them were made a long time ago (the late-'20s to mid-'30s), like the No. 3 and No. 30 model 27. The exact reason Charles Lefever came up with this cocking system is lost to history, but if I had to guess, I'd say there might have been a perceived cost saving and/or assembly advantage. And the lever doesn't slam one's fingers if the gun is handled carelessly. Sales of the reverse cockers topped out at around 80,000 per year for a few years but in the end (1933-'35) advertising dollars went elsewhere and sales dropped drastically.

I am going to say upfront that I'm not 100% on how the reverse cockers work. Shane had planned to come by the house with several of his reverse cocker conversions and we were going to spend the day shooting them, and he was going to leave one with me to evaluate long-term. We were also going to take one apart to get me up to speed on their operation- but COVID-19 ruined that plan. Here are a few photos to help show how it works. The first photo is Shane's latest creation based on a basket-case 111-40 Red Ryder. This is the first time for seeing his hand made steel and leather "flex lever". It's designed to allow very fast cycling for an action game he's come up with that uses very rapid low-powered shots to keep a balloon aloft. This gun is set up to use the No. 25 shot tube, as many of his guns are- and it's also a reverse cocker.







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Grayrock said:

Perhaps in the 46 pages of posts there is a tutorial on disassembling my Red Ryder. The 1st 8 pages were showing me I was close to getting this info. I skipped to the end to ask for help. Mine is a 1940's vintage. Everything seems to work internally (it cocks and shoots) but no BB's come out. Can someone please point me in the right direction?

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Cvans' suggestion is a very valid one- leather seals often need oil to bring back performance. But even if the seals are dry, there should still be a BB leaving the barrel.

So, if your gun isn't shooting a BB at any speed, take the "shot tube" out of the gun. The shot tube is the removable part that has the small diameter tube that the BB shoots out from. The shot tube is removed by turning the cap CCW about 3 turns and pulling it out. Check the shot tube for a BB being jammed in the tube, or for something preventing a BB from reaching the barrel. If the shot tube checks out, shine a light into the end of the outer barrel and look to see if there's a 5/32" diameter x 2-1/2" long tube sticking up from the bottom of the barrel, right in the middle. If you don't see it, then that's at least part of the problem.

Grayrock said:

AHA! (My epiphany...) I do NOT see anything in the bottom of the open barrel. Would that tube break off and fall out? If so, is a replacement available? If so, how do I install it? Thank you very much for your insight.

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Yes, the air tube of leather seal guns were prone to break off. At some point, the broken piece would have either come out when the gun was shot, or it may have been manually removed from the shot tube after breaking off. The leather seal piston seals are available but the steel 'body' is not available from anywhere I'm aware of, except used, taken from a donor gun. I happen to have a complete used air tube/piston assembly with the leather seal intact. It will get you up and running, as long as the second leather seal at the bottom of the compression chamber is still okay in your gun. This seal is called the barrel seal. If it's bad, you can replace it with a rubber seal. More on that can be seen here: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/rejuvenate-or-replace-leather-seals_topic8070.html. It also covers how to oil the leather seals in a gun that has dry seals.

Taking the gun apart and reassembling it isn't too hard but there are tools that are needed. You can make them if you're handy in the shop. Another option is to mail it to me for repair. I don't charge for labor but you'd be responsible for parts and shipping both ways. You can spend $60 pretty easily that way.

Grayrock said:

I believe that mine is so old that it does not have the "OIL HERE" hole. My Model 25 does have it. My barrel is blued steel, not painted. Does that give a hint to when it was made?

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The wooden stocked 111-40 Red Ryder was made from 1940 until early 1950 when they started using plastic. There are no Register Numbers so you need to use the various features to get an idea of when it was made, like aluminum or iron lever, adjustable elevation or not, blued or copper plated forearm and front sight bands.

Grayrock said:

The shot tube: on my Model 25 there is a little wire spring at the base. My 111/40 does not have a similar wire spring. Is it supposed to?

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Yes. The spring keeps BBs from rolling out of the shot tube by gravity and keeps the gun from shooting 2 BBs at a time.