An argument for the German model of hunting

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Totally agree. Suppose a land owner had quite a number of deer on his land, over populated and CWD is abundant. Does the land owner have the right to say, heck with you. I do care, no shooting or harvesting deer on my land.So who actually own the wildlife on Private land? Would it be ok, to loose a states whole deer herd because of one land owner and his rights?
In this state the DNR has sharpshooter teams to cull herds if needed. I don't know if they can kill on private land but they probably can with a warrant. This states prohibits hunting in all kinds of places. But they do have special hunts.
 
I am pretty sure they cannot come onto private land and do that I am pretty sure that violated some of the bill of rights. Back in Ohio were I grew up hunting was not allow in Cuyahoga National Forest so they would use bonded bounty hunters to come in an cull the over populated deer herd every few years. That always caused a nice uproar by the animal lovers.
 
I pay over $300 every year for the privilege to hunt my own land here in Tennessee because I live in Alabama

I do the same, though the land in TN is currently a lease. Luckily I don't have to pay to hunt on my land in AL.
 
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Alabama doesn't have property taxes? Hunting licenses are free?
I think he was referring to the fact that in Alabama (a many other states) you do not need to purchase a hunting license to hunt your own property. Typically the owner and their immediate family can all hunt for free (except them pesky property taxes).
 
Alabama doesn't have property taxes? Hunting licenses are free?

Yes they have property taxes which, though lower than most, infuriates me to no end.
And no hunting licenses aren't free for most people but you do not need a license on your own property. You also do not need a license if you are over 65 but I've got a long way to go for that.
 
I always prefer keeping the government out of such things. And, I really don't mind paying for the privileged of using someone's land for hunting. If I don't like the price, I can look elsewhere. I've hunted almost exclusively on day leases the past two seasons. If I give THAT a rest, I have plenty of hogs and deer on my little place.
 
This is how it works in Germany:
- land owners need a minimum of 75 ha (185 acres) to hunt the property or to lease it out!
- if they have less, they need to arrange a cooperative with neighbouring land owners until they reach the 185 acres
- whenever this is reached, the land owners can decide if they hunt the property themselves (if they are a cooperative, they elect a president who then defines the regulations for all land owners - who can hunt where and what) or if they lease it out to hunters.
- Most commonly, they lease it out as this means additional income.

Independent from how this decission is taken, whoever hunts the property is responsible for meeting the quota (only some animals have quotas - hoggs i.e. have none). They are also responsible for compensating land owners for any damage to crops by game animals. If proprties are rented out, this is the most debated point and there are many agreements in place - i.e. the hunter pays all the damage, non of it, a share of it, up to a maximum leverl ....
 
In Wisconsin, and I presume many other states, the deer population is managed to provide license fee income for the state (yes, it is all about the money). Wisconsin sells in the neighborhood of 600,000 deer permits per year ($24 each) and takes in about 14million+ dollars per year in deer licenses alone. So, for now anyway, it's all about the money for at least this state. I am certain when the powers that be figure out how to keep taking the money and control privately owned land, like europe has done, we will get the european model here.
 
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Alabama doesn't have property taxes?

My favorite topic on property “ownership”. Seems as though we rent from the .gov. If we don’t pay them every year, they will come and take it. If they decide they want it despite that fact, eminent domain is used to take it directly, despite being current on taxes. In between they just let us know what we can and can’t do on it...
 
And no hunting licenses aren't free for most people but you do not need a license on your own property.
Right, in AL, if you are a resident of AL, you can hunt on your own property without a license.
 
Totally agree. Suppose a land owner had quite a number of deer on his land, over populated and CWD is abundant. Does the land owner have the right to say, heck with you. I do care, no shooting or harvesting deer on my land.So who actually own the wildlife on Private land? Would it be ok, to loose a states whole deer herd because of one land owner and his rights?
The ownership of animals populating private land is definitely a gray area. About 5 miles from my house, a couple of guys went together and bought about 1200 acres of farm and forested land with the grand plan of opening a "hunting preserve". It's pay-to-play obviously, and to protect their stocked animals, they promptly erected a 10' high chain-link fence all the way around the property. Question I and most people have is:
What about the game animals that were already there? Does merely owning the property entitle them to claim ownership of all the animals and restrict their ability to be "wild"?

Hunting clubs, preserves and game farms have never interested me. Too much like fishing in pay lakes. I'd rather not make it more expensive than it already is while eliminating what I'd consider to be fair chase altogether.
 
You haven't attempted to hunt pheasants in the wild lately, have you? Outside of North or South Dakota, I mean. It's a lot less expensive for me to pay for a day at a local game farm than to drive to N. or S. Dakota, find public land, and hunt it. I also get to shoot hens then. They taste just as good. Even out there in the Dakotas , it's mostly guided hunts on private land. The only difference is the birds are wild, though often stocked yearly, just not set out immediately before the hunt.
As for deer preserves, a guy bought a 40 from my father in law, fenced it, set up food plots, and started raising deer, both penned and loose on the fenced in property. (His ultimate goal was to produce and sell 'siring services' like is done with bulls.) He even had the gall to tell me "Don't shoot any big bucks you see on your farm, they're mine. They jump the fence now and again." He also turned my son, who hunted with him a couple years, into a rack hunter for a while. My son has since recanted, and realizes the utility of shooting does and lesser bucks. My philosiphy has always been "You can't eat antlers, unless your a mouse." That guy kind of soured me on deer preserves.
Never heard of a 'pay lake'. In Minnesota, there are some lakes that the owners claim are 'privately owned' but their claim violates State law. The lake itself is the property of the people of the State of Minnesota. If you can land a seaplane or float copter on it, there isn't a dang thing the land owner can do about it. I always wanted to fish Lake Giffilian in North Oaks with a STOL floatplane. Big crappies, so I hear.
 
Never heard of a 'pay lake
Pay lakes are basically ponds of various size people pay to fish in, that are stocked usually with large catfish. Some are tagged, and payouts are made for tagged fish, biggest fish in a tournament, etc... So imagine a 2 acre pond with 30 people fishing for fish that can't go anywhere but up and down the water column.

You haven't attempted to hunt pheasants in the wild lately, have you
I've never pheasant hunted, though I've shot pheasants jumped while rabbit hunting. I did help out a little at a "pheasant farm" one summer when I was younger. Fed the pheasants about the same way you'd feed chickens, and they just followed whoever had the grain. Shooting sparrows would seem more sporting. :rofl:
 
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I agree set birds don't take off to the next county when you open your gun case, and I have actually kicked set birds to get them to fly, (I won't shoot at those, I tell the shooter nearest me to get ready) but your comment exactly illustrates my point. Wild pheasants are few and far between in many places for various reasons. (Coyotes, fox, ditch mowing, etc)

The pay ponds sound like the trout farm that used to be near here, or the one at the Sportsman's Show in the winter. I always thought those were for kids.

I've helped a friend who works at the game farm I shoot at. The birds are in a pole barn, and there is a chickenwire fenced-in area about 12'x12' that he feeds and boxes birds, Since they tend to congregate there when he comes in with the feed, it makes it easy to get x number of roosters and x number of hens, etc. But we don't shoot them in there.

On the family farm, I've seen about one pheasant a year out there. I've actually seen more grouse, and we're supposedly too far south for any numbers of those.
 
When I first lived in NV my dentist also had a pheasant and sporting clays place. He was one of the earliest proponents of sporting clays to give you an idea how long ago that was. He owned 1500 acres and leased another 5000; raised his own pheasants from eggs in his incubators through letting them stay safe in his flight ens that covered acres. He started putting birds out in different section weeks before opening day and when you came in with your day's bag he had you show where you took the birds and had one of his kids immediately take some more to those areas and release them. He grew wheat, corn , seed garlic, millet and other crops (not easy to do in Northern NV's dry climate) Hilton had a ranch nearby as well as his casino/hotel at Tahoe and many times some private helicopters would show up with some high-rollers there for a day of pheasant hunting. Coyotes were the biggest threat so all the ATVs carried rifles
 
It’s a hard no from me. I killed two deer off my 15 acres last year which under the German system would be illegal unless I had neighbors willing to join me. The whole concept flies in the face of American independence. The Germans can do what they want, but I can’t think of a single thing from Germany that I can’t live without.
 
My brother spent 6 years in Germany. He is an avid hunter and shooter; he loved Germany. He's hunted all over the USA, Germany, Scotland, Africa. Every location has it's pros and cons; no 2 states in our country are identical. As long as I can drag myself out bed, I'll hunt regardless of the obstacles.
 
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