6.5 Grendel, vs 243

Larry Poho said:

Have now put over 350 rounds down range on my new Sanders 18 inch 6.5 Grendel upper. I have mostly shot Hornady SST and ELD in 123 grain. My friend had some loads with 130 grain Berger, and yes a few did show very slight signs of the fact they were pretty hot. He had a 20 round box of 139 grain, but I didnt want to try those out just yet. The 130 gr Bergers were clocking over 2550 fps. Only problem was they were slightly bigger groups than the Hornady rounds. looked to be an inch and very slightly bigger. No way I can see my 243 Tikka being as good for deer jn Pa. when I go back there to hunt. I have had good results with 90 gr and 100 gr 243 loads, but a 123 or now a 130 grain boolit moving at over 2500 fps and making a bigger hole with the weight advantage has me excited to try out the Grendel. Don’t forget, in the last two years,the Grendel has made bigger strides forward than almost any other small and medium gain hunting cartridges. but its the eye opening accuracy that gives me the confidence. The 243 is a good cartridge but I like the Grendel better, i am thinking about a 22 inch CZ Grendel bolt for deer hunting.

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I really like the grendel also, i generaly shoot 100 to 123s, but have been thinking about trying some 140s since I have them.
Ive found that the Grendel relies heavily on bullet performance and penetration (much like a 30-30). I
lacks the sheer velocity to cause that significant shock a faster cartridge can.

The .243 on thr other hand has plenty of velocity, but you have to couple that with the correct bullet, or taking the correct shot for the bullet your using.

Ive had very good luck with both, and prefer the Grendel. I think the .243 is just as capable, and more likely to result in a drt because of the added velocity.


I think 22" is just about right for the Grendel also. I have a 24" Cz 527 american and 20" BCA upper. Id be just as happy if both were 22".

I love my 243. I've killed many deer with it over the last 20+ years I've owned it. It just works. I also like it that the ammo isn't difficult to locate.

There isn't enough difference in bullet diameter to matter, only .021". That's about the thickness of a fingernail. And bullet weight alone doesn't mean better performance. The bullets sectional densities are the better indicator of penetration. And in this case a 120 gr 6.5 bullet has about the same SD as a 100 gr 243. You should see a little better penetration from the Grendel especially with bullets heavier than 120 gr.

It's really a tossup, but while I don't have a 6.5 Grendel I'd probably choose it over a 243 too; but I'd not call it a slam dunk decision. The bigger difference is going to be effective range. A 243 will hold up better at long range especially if you have a rifle with the right barrel twist to handle heavier 110-115 gr bullets.

I'd pick the 243 I like both. It would matter on the platform

.243 for me......

Larry Poho said:

Don’t forget, in the last two years,the Grendel has made bigger strides forward than almost any other small and medium gain hunting cartridges.

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An interesting claim. What’s the basis?

I think one of the big advantages to the Grendel is that you can shoot it out of an AR platform rifle. That gives you so many options if you are going build your own rifle. As far as performance they are both great cartridges.

Skeptic13 said:

I think one of the big advantages to the Grendel is that you can shoot it out of an AR platform rifle. That gives you so many options if you are going build your own rifle. As far as performance they are both great cartridges.

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That's about all the Grendel has over the .243. You hit a deer in the right spot with either one out to 300 yards and they'll fall the same way. I have a Grendel, and I love it, it's an outstanding long-range target gun (what I use mine for), but people been killing deer with .243's long before the 6.5G came around, and will keep on killing them with it.

Have two .243s and these rifles have killed 6 deer in the last 4 years; 3 I shot and 3 my buddy shot with my rifle. Every one of them dropped dead where they were hit without a wiggle. They were all within 150yds. Three were shot with Sierra 60 gr HP bullets that I loaded...around 3400 fps as I recall. The other three were dropped with 100 gr factory loads. Don't know about a Grendel, but hard to imagine it could be any better under my conditions. Have a friend who shoots deer in prairie country where longer shots are the norm. He's been killing deer since high school with a Ruger American .243 using his uncle's reloads with Nosler 90gr bullets. Has killed several at 300+ yds. Again, don't know about a Grendel, but it doesn't get much better than these .243s

People always leave this out, but the Grendel recoils about 25% less than 243 Win & has less muzzle blast. This makes it superior for new & young shooters.

I don't think the OP is saying the 243 is worse, just that the grendel seems equally capable for his purposes, and he likes it. And for that, I agree completely.

Gimme a 6.5 any day of the week. Have a long standing grudge against the .243 after experiencing unforgivable failures.

I’ve had a long love affair with the 243win and AI, but only consider them in fast twist barrels, so I’m a little skewed in that way - effectively, I’ve been asking the 243win to become a 6 creed for almost 20yrs. Despite a rocky start with Bill Anderson’s supply chain lies in the early days, I’ve forgiven the Grendel cartridge of his transgressions and find it to be exceptionally satisfying.

For many years, I have stated that the 243win is the most efficient and effective deer hunting cartridge - with no concessions - on the market. Maybe the last 6-7yrs, I have come to replace the 243win in that statement with the 6.5 Grendel. Comparatively, the 243win/6creed has far more energy and will knock down game at longer ranges better, while the Grendel fits into an AR and uses about 30% less powder to do the job.

My personal answer to this particular question has become a 243LBC - a 6mm Wildcat on the Grendel case.

I may never buy another 243win after the advent of the 6 creed, but I still find the 243win to be exceptionally viable. The 6.5 Grendel isn’t its equal, but for the 90% task of either, they’re interchangeable.

Accuracy advantage between the two is coincidental, but should favor the 243win. A bolt gun should outshoot an AR, but in the few select rifles which are available chambered in both - the Ruger American as an example, I expect parity among the two. Any observed advantage between two specific rifles is only between those rifles, and two others might flip the ranking just as easily.

I happened to have shot both yesterday, not really a fair comparison. The 243 has more case volume and higher operating pressures that helps it win a lot of contests performance wise. The 6.5 cm would be closer to "apples to apples".

I have always liked the BR and PPC rounds for their efficiency though, so the Grendel wasn't a hard sell to me.

If you're exclusively a deer hunter, the lightweight 243 bullets at ~3000fps might be preferable to 120gr+ 6.5 Grendel rounds at more sedate velocities. Deer are thin skinned critters and those little speedball bullets will probably blow up in something important giving you a good shot at DRT. If you're hunting hogs, the Grendel will probably give you better penetration thanks to better SD. Sectional density + ballistic coefficient has been the 6.5 Secret Sauce for over a century.

js8588 said:

If you're hunting hogs, the Grendel will probably give you better penetration thanks to better SD.

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This has not been my experience. The greater SD doesn’t make up for the ~500fps loss in velocity between a 95grn 243 and a 123grn 6.5. I typically expect an exit with a 243, I do not expect an exit most of the time with the 6.5 Grendel.

I'll follow up on vt's train and throw in there that I'd like to find something that would keep a mono from exiting at the full spectrum of mvs the .243 offers. I fully believe the Grendel has its place, I've made the case for it before, but I absolutely believe in the right tool for the job, and the Grendel has some jobs the .243 has to be greatly downloaded to even try, equally the Grendel can't be jacked up high enough to compete with the .243. If we ignore platform, then we have some overlap with with two different purpose tools.

Very good info here fellas. Thanks for providing good food for thought. I've been back and forth over these two calibers a lot lately.

Olympus said:

Very good info here fellas. Thanks for providing good food for thought. I've been back and forth over these two calibers a lot lately.

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The answer is both. They each have viable uses, I presently don't have much use for the 243, while I do have use for the grendel due to using less powder in loading. I may get a 243 in the future, but the 6 creed seems like the way to go at that power level.

Olympus said:

Very good info here fellas. Thanks for providing good food for thought. I've been back and forth over these two calibers a lot lately.

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Neither are a wrong answer. I would personally suggest the 6 creed has enough advantage over the 243win to be wholly replacing in this type of conversation. Between the 6.5 Grendel and 243/6cm, there simply isn’t a clear advantage for either without context. I class them equivalently for hunting, not ballistically, but functionally.

From the same blind, separated by a year and a few yards, one taken with a 6.5 Grendel AR, the other with a 6 Creed bolt gun. Neither would have known the difference if I were holding the other rifle on that day.

Skeptic13 said:

I think one of the big advantages to the Grendel is that you can shoot it out of an AR platform rifle. That gives you so many options if you are going build your own rifle. As far as performance they are both great cartridges.

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I just got into the 6.5 game with a cz



Should get it out to range in a week or 2


as far as “ar platform “ my ar10 in 243 is a hoot. Maybe you are referring to an ar15?

The two most accurate rifles I've owned in my life have been a .243 Tikka T3 and a Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel. Both would print 1/2 MOA groups when the nut behind the trigger did his part. Day in and day out, I'd have to give the accuracy edge to the Grendel though. Boringly accurate.

But the real edge (and some of you are going to laugh, but go ahead...) is in felt recoil. No, the .243 isn't bad at all for a grown adult. BUT, the Grendel has to me, about 1/2 the felt recoil of the .243 while still cranking out impressive numbers downrange for all practical hunting purposes. We don't need 100 grain bullets that go 3000 fps. for 99% of the hunting we do. A 120,123 or 130-grain bullet going 2400-2500 out of the pipe is plenty, or should be with the right bullets. And if you can get "plenty" of oomph with recoil that anyone can cope with, that keeps you on target and keeps you from flinching, then why not take it?

I was pretty down on the Grendel after seeing questionable results on game a few years ago, but the buddy I sold mine to sold it back to me at a price I couldn't refuse, so I'm once again a Howa Mini Grendel owner, and I have a renewed interest in the round - particularly with finding the RIGHT hunting bullet for it. So I'll continue my search with the little gun, particularly because it is so obscenely accurate and easy to shoot. Doesn't hurt that the rifle weighs just 5 lbs. 9 oz. after I put it on a diet.

I'm actually a little curious about lighter bullets in the Grendel honestly I don't think I have seen anything monster and a 120 lb deer is about average here. So there's a little voice in my head that wonders what I could accomplish with a 100 grain bullet and an AR friendly cartridge.

100 gn Nosler BTs shoot very well out of my Grendel. Buck made it about 10 yards before it crashed.