Anyone else thinks that manual safeties go on the frame?
- Thread starter whm1974
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Ignition Override
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As a Lefty it would not help, with almost everything designed for Righties---and my "safeties" are owning three DA/SA guns for carry (CZ PCR, Walther, Sig P6).
Never really trained with any 1911-styled gun. My 'new' S&W 5906 (just for the club) in DA/SA is sort of like having a thick 1911.
Never really trained with any 1911-styled gun. My 'new' S&W 5906 (just for the club) in DA/SA is sort of like having a thick 1911.
sparkyv
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So it's like no safety. So you agree with me.
HPCadm17
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IMHO the 1911-style safety is perfect, as far as safeties go. Easy to engage/disengage, located in the right spot for proper use. I dislike safeties on striker-fired pistols, but at least the one on the M17 is 1911-style and can be engaged/disengaged in the same manner.
I don't mind slide-mounted safety-decockers, like on the 3rd Gen S&W. It can be left disengaged after decocking, and it's out of the way so it won't get bumped when firing. But since I keep the safety off all the time, I'd rather just have a decocker-only DA/SA.
I don't mind slide-mounted safety-decockers, like on the 3rd Gen S&W. It can be left disengaged after decocking, and it's out of the way so it won't get bumped when firing. But since I keep the safety off all the time, I'd rather just have a decocker-only DA/SA.
OrangePwrx9
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My P-series Rugers are both .45 decockers. I think one of the leading reasons for the demise of the P-series was the slide mounted safety/decocker. It is awkward to manipulate one-handed and counter-intuitive if you are familiar with the 1911. I have to shoot two-handed because of a tremor and thus have no trouble flipping the safety Off with the supporting hand...but for carrying, I'd much rather go with a revolver or a Glock.
Not familiar with the DAO P-series. Don't know whether they have a safety or not. If they did have a safety, I'd be tempted to carry safety Off.
Zaydok Allen
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That's really what it comes down to I think. There's plenty of variety to accommodate everyone.
OrangePwrx9
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Only that a Decocker/Safety combo on the slide is both simpler and cheaper to implement. The rotating drum attached to the Ruger P-series decocker lever rises up to protect the hammer end of the firing pin from the hammer blow during decocking. The decocked hammer falls on the drum instead of the firing pin. Very simple.
The Ruger DAO P series pistol I was checking out didn't have a safety, and I was able to pull the trigger quite easy. The Eastern European .22 semi auto clone on the hand, I barely got the DA trigger to even bunged with both trigger fingers...
JTQ
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Nearly everybody carries a Traditional Double Action (TDA) auto pistol with the safety off.
Mr. Mosin
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The big three that come to my mind (Beretta 92, Walther PP series, and the Makarov) all are more suited to being decocker's than actual safeties. So being on the slide is... irrelevant. As to them being up to fire.... you grasp the PP or Makarov (Beretta 92 is too large for me to do such) your thumb *should* theoretically knock the safety to "fire" in the process of grasping to fire. To move forward is more natural, in my thinking.
If you are referring to this statement of yours :
"This. Anything else is silly.
Which was in response to:
(Obturation said: )
".....If there is to be a safety, it belongs in the frame."
No , I do not agree. I disagree. You state that any safety location other than frame mounted is silly. I think it is a matter of preference , or at the very least not a deal maker or breaker. The fact that I carry a sa/da semi-auto , hammer down safety off , does not mean that " ... it's like no safety." , as you put it.
There is still a decocker which is very useful IMO , and I do engage the safety in certain situations.
I do not mind a slide mounted safety , and I do like the decocker function that is associated with many pistols that have slide a mounted safety. In addition , the slide mounted safety - especially if ambidextrous - makes for a very positive grip on the slide when manually cycling , such as chambering a first round.
RetiredUSNChief
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RetiredUSNChief
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The P320 without the "voluntary upgrade" is not drop safe.
Apparently the Honor Guard pistols also have problems with drop safety.
And given that several people here are lumping revolvers into the pistol category, pretty much any revolver manufactured in the early 70s and before probably are not drop safe. Although the history of this technology in fact goes back several more decades, there were even modern revolvers produced after the 70s without this technology. (I'm thinking transfer bar.)
The point of my posting is not to challenge whether or not all "modern" semiautomatic handguns are manufactured as such... it's a simple statement that not all ARE drop safe, for whatever reason(s).
This is a fact and is important for a variety of reasons. The pistol a person has may not have been manufactured to be drop safe, it may be defective, it may be damaged, etc.
Not everybody buys new, either, so they may not even realize the gun they bought/traded for wasn't manufactured as such or may be damaged.
Nobody is putting a qualification on the pistols to be carried in this thread, therefore stipulating one in which all pistols ARE drop safe is disingenuous.
People may carry whatever they wish. The only stipulation should be that they are aware of how their chosen handgun works and carry it accordingly.
Apparently the Honor Guard pistols also have problems with drop safety.
And given that several people here are lumping revolvers into the pistol category, pretty much any revolver manufactured in the early 70s and before probably are not drop safe. Although the history of this technology in fact goes back several more decades, there were even modern revolvers produced after the 70s without this technology. (I'm thinking transfer bar.)
The point of my posting is not to challenge whether or not all "modern" semiautomatic handguns are manufactured as such... it's a simple statement that not all ARE drop safe, for whatever reason(s).
This is a fact and is important for a variety of reasons. The pistol a person has may not have been manufactured to be drop safe, it may be defective, it may be damaged, etc.
Not everybody buys new, either, so they may not even realize the gun they bought/traded for wasn't manufactured as such or may be damaged.
Nobody is putting a qualification on the pistols to be carried in this thread, therefore stipulating one in which all pistols ARE drop safe is disingenuous.
People may carry whatever they wish. The only stipulation should be that they are aware of how their chosen handgun works and carry it accordingly.
mcb
Member
None of my CCW pistols, and very few of my pistols in general even have a manual safety. I don't think I would conceal carry a handgun with a manual safety, not without a heap of new training/practice.
JTQ
Member
Weren't you talking about TDA guns, and the P320 is a striker fired gun.
I believe you that there are TDA guns that aren't drop safe without the safety engaged, I don't know any, but if you say there are, I'm fine with that. However, the P320, a striker fired gun and I, and I thought you, were talking about TDA guns.
eyeshot
Member
I totally agree with you. That DA first pull is enough of a safety. The time is better spent practicing your draw (garments out of the way) and getting quickly, smoothly on target, etc. The safety crowd is like the empty chamber crowd. I know there are places for it but not when you are carrying concealed.
Just an opinion. Px4 9mm Storm Compact.
Jim Watson
Member
There is a risk of engaging a slide safety when racking the slide.
As The Colonel said, don't get caught with your dingus down.
The Beretta G decock only dingus has a following.
As The Colonel said, don't get caught with your dingus down.
The Beretta G decock only dingus has a following.
WheelGunMan
Member
I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree.
When holstered, my firearm is in "Condition 1". When I draw my firearm the safety is being disengaged the moment it leaves the holster. When I meet my other hand and present my firearm forward I'm in "Condition 0" whether I'm going to fire or not. Trigger discipline keeps my finger extended along side of the slide until I decide to fire. When the threat has passed and the firearm is lowered the safety is reactivated putting the firearm back into "Condition 1" so I can safely re-holster.
I've been running drills daily to install this into my psyche so when the SHTF moment comes there will never be a question on whether the safety is on or off.
This is my biggest problem with slide mounted safeties and the reason that I don't agree that they can simply be ignored if you don't like how they work. It would be bad enough to have to perform a clearance drill in the middle of a gunfight. The icing on the cake would be unintentionally putting your gun on safe in the process because you bumped the slide mounted safety.
That said, I own some guns with slide-mounted safeties, and one of them actually does self-defense duty. But I don't pretend that the safety isn't there--instead I practice taking it off automatically when I bring the gun up to fire. Probably overkill for that gun since the safety has a strong detent and the lever is actually inset into a cut in the slide. I've never actually activated that safety by mistake while running the slide (although I have on other types of guns with slide-mounted safeties) and it's pretty unlikely that I ever will.
I dislike safeties on a pistol. I guess that is because i am used to DA/SA 9mm. I own among others a CZ SP 01 i use mainly for IPSC and as a side arm while hunting. You cant engage the safety if the hammer is down. That means, no safety will interfere with your DA first shot.
That said, i used once the safety while hunting and several times while on an IPSC stage un nearby european countries. Hunting, after using the pistol, i put the safety on and holstered the gun because i dont have a decocker only and felt that lowering the hammer wouldnt be such a good idea right now.
If a gun has a safety instead of a decocker only i prefer it to be on the slide.
That said, i used once the safety while hunting and several times while on an IPSC stage un nearby european countries. Hunting, after using the pistol, i put the safety on and holstered the gun because i dont have a decocker only and felt that lowering the hammer wouldnt be such a good idea right now.
If a gun has a safety instead of a decocker only i prefer it to be on the slide.
There are plenty of pistols thumb safety lever that simply do not work for me. Some are on the frame, and, some are on the slide.
There are two safety lever systems that I do know work for me. (There may be others.) One is the original-sized 1911 pistol, and the other is S&W DA auto pistols, through the Third Generation. Each is ready to fire when the lever is aligned with the target. For me, at least, up-or-down is not as important as the final orientation of the safety lever, when it is ready to “Fire.” A similar motion, with my thumb, will off-safe either weapon, though they move in different directions. Of course, in the case of the 1911, my thumb remains on the top of the lever, while ready to fire.
A miniaturized 1911, such as the Colt Mustang, or the SIG copies, do not work for me, as the safety lever is too far to the rear, requiring me to break my firing grip to manipulate the lever. I have handled other auto-pistols, with safety levers that did not work for me, for various reasons. I have generally avoided buying such weapons.
The semi-auto AR15 selector lever has caused cognitive dissonance, for me, as the position for semi-auto “Fire” is downward. This is one of the reasons I stopped being one of my employer’s patrol rifle units; the AR15 selector was not my cup of tea. (Another reason was because the rifles had to stay cased, in the trunk, except during narrowly-defined circumstances, whereas my shotgun could ride up front, with me, could be in my hands, at my discretion, and I could use buck or slugs, at my discretion.)
There are two safety lever systems that I do know work for me. (There may be others.) One is the original-sized 1911 pistol, and the other is S&W DA auto pistols, through the Third Generation. Each is ready to fire when the lever is aligned with the target. For me, at least, up-or-down is not as important as the final orientation of the safety lever, when it is ready to “Fire.” A similar motion, with my thumb, will off-safe either weapon, though they move in different directions. Of course, in the case of the 1911, my thumb remains on the top of the lever, while ready to fire.
A miniaturized 1911, such as the Colt Mustang, or the SIG copies, do not work for me, as the safety lever is too far to the rear, requiring me to break my firing grip to manipulate the lever. I have handled other auto-pistols, with safety levers that did not work for me, for various reasons. I have generally avoided buying such weapons.
The semi-auto AR15 selector lever has caused cognitive dissonance, for me, as the position for semi-auto “Fire” is downward. This is one of the reasons I stopped being one of my employer’s patrol rifle units; the AR15 selector was not my cup of tea. (Another reason was because the rifles had to stay cased, in the trunk, except during narrowly-defined circumstances, whereas my shotgun could ride up front, with me, could be in my hands, at my discretion, and I could use buck or slugs, at my discretion.)
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