Fairly new gun owner and current ccw holder, two pistols Taurus g2c ( EDC ) and smith and Wesson m&p 2.0 ( home defense Range gun ) with tactical light. I’ve been around a lot of ex military and law enforcement in my short time on earth so I understand most tactics and usefulness of accessories on weapons. I have an ex military friend that gets very upset when I don’t do what HE WANTS me to do on MY gun, he says my Benelli super nova 12 gauge is a piece of garbage gun, and a tactical light in a pistol is useless. What is everyone’s thoughts on weapon accessories if you’re only involved with guns for the sake of a hobby and of course home defense? His argument is “it’s not tactical and will get you KILLED!” Bc thugs that break into your house can/will shoot at your weapon light making you an easy target. Thoughts?
Debate on accessories/tactics for a new gun owner
- Thread starter stormTosh
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1942bull
Member
I agree with your friend when it comes to lights mounted on guns. Beside being a point of aim for an adversary the light presents a different issue. Suppose you hear noises outside your house. You turn On the light on your pistol to see what is out there. You are aiming a gun at anything you point the light at. Bettwe hope it not a couple LEOs. I prefer a light in my hand which I would turn on once I had reasonable belief there was a danger likely present. I would turn on the strobe effect. I can see but it really impairs the sight of anyone it is aimed at. I use the cross arm method with light in weak hand and gun in strong hand with for arms crossed. That put the beam of the light outside of the outline of my body in case a perp takes a shot at it.additionally I do not add weight to my handgun. I prefer the balance point to be as designed.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
I have light on my handgun.
I am not ex Military or LEO or an expert by any means but here are my thoughts
1. You should not use the light on the gun like a flashlight, don't want to point the gun at anything you don't want to shoot.
2. The light does give someone else something to shoot at, bad idea in a military conflict, possibly a bad idea in your house.
I will say from night matches it is much easier to engage targets with a weapon mounted light vs hand held. (for me at least) But in a match I know they are targets.
I wouldn't really care what my friends said, I would listen them and weigh their advice, but the decision is mine, and if I decide different I don't care if they like it or not.
I don't own a Benelli, but from what I have heard they are not "garbage" by any means.
Shoot it, test it, if it runs it runs if it does not figure out why or get something else.
I am not ex Military or LEO or an expert by any means but here are my thoughts
1. You should not use the light on the gun like a flashlight, don't want to point the gun at anything you don't want to shoot.
2. The light does give someone else something to shoot at, bad idea in a military conflict, possibly a bad idea in your house.
I will say from night matches it is much easier to engage targets with a weapon mounted light vs hand held. (for me at least) But in a match I know they are targets.
I wouldn't really care what my friends said, I would listen them and weigh their advice, but the decision is mine, and if I decide different I don't care if they like it or not.
I don't own a Benelli, but from what I have heard they are not "garbage" by any means.
Shoot it, test it, if it runs it runs if it does not figure out why or get something else.
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I can definitely understand the concerns with being shot at in the attempt a burglar is shooting at my light, but at that point I’m wondering would it even matter where the light is if someone who can’t see starts just popping off shots in your house n your general direction? I hadn’t thought of the police officer situation though, that’s interesting and definitely something I will consider now lol I appreciate your opinion and perspective.
I agree with you, I typically brush off his opinions when they differ bc ultimately it is my choice. However with that being said I want to make sure I’m not completely wrong with my logic lol which is why I’d like to hear other gun owners opinions. Which I thank you for offering!
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Trey Veston
Member
All of my home defense and woods defense guns have lights mounted on them. I also have a separate flashlight by the door as well. If I hear something/someone in my house, then I'm grabbing a gun and don't care about giving someone something to shoot at.
If I hear something/someone in the yard, then I walk out with a flashlight to check it out.
I live alone and in small 1400 sq ft home. If someone is in my house unannounced, they are a threat.
If I hear something/someone in the yard, then I walk out with a flashlight to check it out.
I live alone and in small 1400 sq ft home. If someone is in my house unannounced, they are a threat.
MCFLYFYTER
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If I knew I would have 2 hands free to use a handgun and a separate light, I'd just use those 2 hands for a long gun with a mounted light. Reality is totally different than the tactical fantasy so many run through their head. Tactics are just planning and options. How do I carry a small child or use a phone while holding a gun and a light?
Just because i have a light on a firearm doesn't mean I just run around with the light on. In my limited experience, when it is dark enough to see night sights, it's too dark to ID a target.
Just because i have a light on a firearm doesn't mean I just run around with the light on. In my limited experience, when it is dark enough to see night sights, it's too dark to ID a target.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Excellent point.
Yes great points and opinions all around, honestly I don’t foresee someone coming into my house with the capabilities to see through the light/strobe on my pistol if I choose to use them, ( just an opinion and observation) I’m working on building AR pistol pistol for a “truck gun”/ home defense chambered in 5.56 10.5” barrel as well.
I agree, I have to constantly remind my friend that seal team six will not be breaching the house through the windows and shooting out lights, we are also not on patrol in Iraq, the same rules don’t apply IMO bc the circumstances have most definitely changed and so have the threats
MCFLYFYTER
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It does seem overused, and it does apply to things. I'd be thrilled if we could find a better word though.
Ignition Override
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When ISIS emerges in west TN, I'll sell my Czechpoint VZ-58, maybe one of my imported AKs..
..and buy a tactical AR-15, simply to feel tactical. My Sigs, CZ PCR, Wlther P99 and S&W 5906 are useless. They have iron sights, no accessories.
..and buy a tactical AR-15, simply to feel tactical. My Sigs, CZ PCR, Wlther P99 and S&W 5906 are useless. They have iron sights, no accessories.
bannockburn
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stormTosh
I use to employ the Harries flashlight technique back in the day when all I had for home defense was a Maglite 4 D cell flashlight and a S&W Model 10. It worked okay for years but eventually I wanted to upgrade to a semi-auto with a rail. I picked up a SIG P229R in 9mm. and added a SIG STL-900L laser/light module. The laser works great as does the strobe setting on the light.
I use to employ the Harries flashlight technique back in the day when all I had for home defense was a Maglite 4 D cell flashlight and a S&W Model 10. It worked okay for years but eventually I wanted to upgrade to a semi-auto with a rail. I picked up a SIG P229R in 9mm. and added a SIG STL-900L laser/light module. The laser works great as does the strobe setting on the light.
entropy
Member
He's half right. The Nova/Super Nova are great 'beat 'em up' duck guns, but there are better choices for HD. I keep enough lights on in the house so I won't need a light on a gun. Now, if the Spetsnaz cut my power immediately before coming in.....
stormTosh, is your friend's name James Yeager, perchance?
Seriously, as others have said, in using a gun light correctly, you leave the potential target no time for his OODA loop to work. Yours is at decision time just as you hit the light; if you realize it's the wife/one of the kids raiding the fridge, you don't fire. A person holding anything that might be a weapon, you are weapons free-you might still not fire.....yet, but it's on them as to what happens next.
Looks great too!
He's half right. The Nova/Super Nova are great 'beat 'em up' duck guns, but there are better choices for HD. I keep enough lights on in the house so I won't need a light on a gun. Now, if the Spetsnaz cut my power immediately before coming in.....
I honestly only bought the Benelli bc I just
Found out about shooting trap and I love it! I’m also very good at it for never doing it before.
stormTosh, is your friend's name James Yeager, perchance?
Seriously, as others have said, in using a gun light correctly, you leave the potential target no time for his OODA loop to work. Yours is at decision time just as you hit the light; if you realize it's the wife/one of the kids raiding the fridge, you don't fire. A person holding anything that might be a weapon, you are weapons free-you might still not fire.....yet, but it's on them as to what happens next.
I also have no idea who James Yeager sorry if that’s a joke and I don’t get it lol
MCFLYFYTER
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Another thing to keep in mind is simplicity. Bannockburn may be very skilled and do a lot of training with that light/laser, and it works for him. I can guarantee you that I could not deal with that many buttons in no light and an adrenaline dump situation.
You have to consider your skill level, and be honest with yourself about practice and such. Your usage is also a major consideration. Some people think about a home defense shotgun and instantly think about clearing their house, while others would think about sitting in the corner of the bedroom and pointing at the door. I think your shotgun would be fine for defending a bedroom, but I wouldn't want to have to use it going through a doorway, let alone a hallway.
What is perfect for me could be a horrible choice for you.
entropy
Member
He's the idealogical twin of your friend. He has videos on You Tube, but I don't recommend them, except as a bad example.
If I had a choice I wouldn’t use it for home defense and technically right now it’s not used for that, I use the full size m&p 2.0 with a light in 9mm for home defense or if I go camping or something. But I agree and think training would need to be implemented when using accessories. I plan to build an AR pistol chambered in 5.56 as another means of home/ truck gun.
haha I try to be sensible and always use circumstances to justify things. I’m not trying to be a green beret at home nor do I want to impersonate any form of military for many reason haha I literally enjoy building these guns as a hobby along with shooting them, the fact that it is my right to carry them to protect myself my family and my home is another reason. I figure cover the basics of firearms safety, implement basic training skills on a regular basis and have fun and that should do it.
The thing of it is too, my friend was a marine and he lives his life through that time of his life and everything he does now he finds a way to correlate it with when he was in the military or a MP.
herrwalther
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Training on how to use a light equipped firearm is more important than having it on. Not sure what vein of military your friend was, and don't really care but he has bad advice. I have trained with a white light on a firearm, and have used that training against hostile people. A bright, white light does have advantages when properly exploited.
The two key facets to a weapon light are identification and disorientation. One of the rules is be sure of your target, that cannot happen if you can't see your target. Your target can be a family member (don't shoot) or a meth head who just kicked down your door at 3AM. So a light helps with that. A bright light or even better, strobe in someone's eyes that have adjusted for low light is very effective. Another use for a white light. As far as the "tacticool" evidence as an aiming point, it is slim when used correctly. Momentary and short burst use of a weapon light will minimize chances of it being used as an aiming point. And if the light is pointed at their face, it takes more shooter discipline than what shows in Hollywood in order to return fire at a light while your eyes adjust. Take some low level shooting classes if you can find them, they are quite informative.
The two key facets to a weapon light are identification and disorientation. One of the rules is be sure of your target, that cannot happen if you can't see your target. Your target can be a family member (don't shoot) or a meth head who just kicked down your door at 3AM. So a light helps with that. A bright light or even better, strobe in someone's eyes that have adjusted for low light is very effective. Another use for a white light. As far as the "tacticool" evidence as an aiming point, it is slim when used correctly. Momentary and short burst use of a weapon light will minimize chances of it being used as an aiming point. And if the light is pointed at their face, it takes more shooter discipline than what shows in Hollywood in order to return fire at a light while your eyes adjust. Take some low level shooting classes if you can find them, they are quite informative.
He was a marine, and by no means do I disregard his “opinion” or level of experience, I feel like it is common sense that what he is saying is something that could be more true in a more “professional” circumstance, where the threat isn’t a meth head at 3am kicking in your door. I genuinely feel like having a light can do tremendous amounts of more good than bad. And I don’t feel like it takes an expert to figure it out, of course as long as training and exercise is implemented and used correctly of course.
entropy
Member
I somehow put my reply in your original message my apologies still figuring out how this works!
If you want to quote the whole post as I did yours here, just hit reply, hit the "insert quotes" box at the lower left of the reply box, then hit enter to add your own word outside of the quote bubble. Or you can quote a particular part of someone's post by highlighting it, and a little drop down box with 'Quote/Reply will appear at the end of the highlighted part. click quote, hit insert quotes, then enter, and add your witty reparte. Like I did here,
I think that is a sound policy. I understand your friend's position, I was Army, and many of the things I learned there have stuck with me. He is thinking in terms of where he's at, however, forgetting that that's not where you're at.
I completely agree! I definitely think he still applies his information to the time he was in the military and where he was at and the kind of threats he dealt with over there, but I live in a suburb area where at the moment my biggest threat is road rage. Lol I completely respect everyone’s thoughts and ideas, I enjoy exploring and I intend on exploring all avenues of gun ownership and usefulness!
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