Best Gun For Dog Attack
- Thread starter mrblenderson
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Jack Ryan
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Reminds me of SO MANY thread titles in just the last month.
The best gun for ANY SITUATION IS THE GUN YOU HAVE. It is ALWAYS going to be better than the one you have to go get. NO OTHER FEATURE IS MORE IMPORTANT.
cjwils
Member
My concern about using a gun in this situation is that a dog in a fight can move so quickly that you could miss from 2 feet away. Or, as you try to aim at a quickly moving dog you might accidentally point the gun toward another person. When I walk my dog in an area where I have occasionally seen a pit bull running loose, I have carried both a can of pepper spray that can be worked with one hand, and a locking knife that can be opened with one hand.
WrongHanded
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I've carried in a lot of different ways at home. I've found the easiest thing for me is a Wilderness Safepacker. The gun is covered completely and secured, but accessible. It can be put on a belt, or shoulder carried on a strap.
I live in a small town. Discharging a firearm within city limits is highly restricted. Even if restrictions are met I am responsible for ALL collateral damage. I have been attacked 3 times in 20 years. Twice walking out on the street, once in my garage. I have five doorways leading outside.Each has a coldsteel Sjambok clipped above the door. I am armed every time I go outside (CCW). That is my last not my first resort. A sjambok will drive cattle and equines away. It can be used by both my wife and myself. You don't have to take it to a range to practice. It cut up the pit bull that tried for me in my garage so badly the owner tried to sue. You really have no idea of the damage a sjambok will do until you use it.Idea came from a Korea war vet when I lived in the country. Nice guy but he had a loaded CMP M1 over every door due to bear, lion and coyote getting into his show horses.
blindhari
blindhari
Good thinking.
All of that is true in many places, and some of it is true everywhere.
Same here.
Again, the appropriate question is not one of what kind of gun to use.
When I lived in Georgia the problem to be faced was not ONE dog but rather dangerous feral packs. I ran across several and bid a retreat while trying not to run. A pack killed a retired couple near us some years back before we moved to Maine. In general nothing less powerful than something in the .380 class; the 9mm might be close to perfect. But for feral packs you'll need firepower; that means either a high capacity magazine or more than just one gun handy.
JTHunter
Member
Mrblenderson - as your dog was already injured in this attack, I don't advise using the wasp spray. You don't want that stuff getting in your dog's wounds or eyes and you don't have sufficient control of the spray.
While a firearm might be appropriate, a knife of 2-4" length, esp. one that you can open with one hand, gives you complete control and pinpoint precision. I carry a 3.25" single blade folder that has a pin near the hinge that I can "thumb open" then flick to snap it into the locked position. Then you could either have stabbed the other dog through the ribs into its heart and killed it. Or you could have stabbed it in its spine in the neck but that might not be fast enough. You could also slit its throat but that might put your arm in harm's way as the dog might grab you instead.
With a knife, you have total control with no fear of a "bad shot" or a ricochet.
I also don't advise the use of a bat or golf club as this might cause the attacking dog to bite harder on your dog, possibly puncturing something vital. If hit from the side in the hindquarters, it could also cause the attacker to twist abruptly, tearing something in your dog, maybe even ripping its teeth through your dog, making the wound worse.
While a firearm might be appropriate, a knife of 2-4" length, esp. one that you can open with one hand, gives you complete control and pinpoint precision. I carry a 3.25" single blade folder that has a pin near the hinge that I can "thumb open" then flick to snap it into the locked position. Then you could either have stabbed the other dog through the ribs into its heart and killed it. Or you could have stabbed it in its spine in the neck but that might not be fast enough. You could also slit its throat but that might put your arm in harm's way as the dog might grab you instead.
With a knife, you have total control with no fear of a "bad shot" or a ricochet.
I also don't advise the use of a bat or golf club as this might cause the attacking dog to bite harder on your dog, possibly puncturing something vital. If hit from the side in the hindquarters, it could also cause the attacker to twist abruptly, tearing something in your dog, maybe even ripping its teeth through your dog, making the wound worse.
I think that anything you do that hurts it but doesn't result in instant death (including knifing it) could cause the dog to bite down. To be clear, I'm not arguing for using a firearm in the situation, just pointing out that I don't think there's anything that's going to be a sure solution that has no chance of causing the attacking dog to bite down harder unless it kills the animal instantly. In fact, even if it does instantly, unless it's a no-reflex kill, there's still the chance of a reflexive/paroxysmal bite-down as the dog dies.
Just a general suggestion for those who find the topic interesting, there are a number of dog attack videos on the internet. It's instructive to watch them. Dogs are fast and can be very dangerous. Once they become fixated on something as prey, they are surprisingly persistent.
There's one where two unarmed adults try to protect a child from a single medium-sized dog and the only way they finally managed was for one of the adults to flee while the other put the child on top of a car. The dog turned on him and bit him several times after the child was out of reach so he also climbed up on top of the car.
There's one where multiple adults were harassed by one large aggressive dog, which bit a number of them before it was finally driven off. This happened in spite of the fact that most of them were healthy and fully ambulatory and there were a number of them together to cooperate against the animal. It did eventually run off.
There's one where a large aggressive dog "trees" a number of children and adults in a playground. Forcing them all to climb up out of reach and injuring several who couldn't get up high enough. That dog refused to leave or break off the attack and a responding police officer eventually had to shoot and kill it.
If you are alone and are attacked by a single aggressive large dog, you need to have a plan and preferably some kind of weapon or significant deterrent or you will likely be injured, possibly severely.
If you want to be prepared defend another animal (perhaps a pet dog during walks) or a child, you need to watch some videos showing dog attacks on children or other small animals and try to formulate a response. A common theme in these is that the small animal or child will run around the defender while the aggressive dog chases it. The aggressive dog gets multiple chances to injure the small animal or child but the defender is often mostly useless, being tangled in a leash or spinning around trying to pick up the pet or child. It's not uncommon that once the pet or child is lifted out of reach for the aggressive dog to attack the defender who is now somewhat hampered in ability to respond by holding the pet or child. This limits both mobility and the ability to fight back.
If you want to be prepared to defend against multiple medium or larger dogs, you need to really have a good plan, an effective weapon, and significant skill. They may run once you respond, but if they do not, you really have your work cut out for you.
Phaedrus/69
Member
It's very common. When I was a kid growing up out in the country we always had dogs but pretty much any time we caved and added one too many to the pack we ended up having them hunting livestock. The worst offender was my 30 lb Blue Heeler/mutt mix. It was the most wonderfully tempered loving dog you'll ever see to people...but unfortunately it had a very strong prey drive especially when running with the pack. Eventually it had to be put down after it killed too many of the neighbor's sheep.
Obturation
Member
Op-Sorry to hear about your trouble.
Any gun will work fine on dogs. If that's not an option, my best advice is that dogs have vulnerable necks and backs .
Any gun will work fine on dogs. If that's not an option, my best advice is that dogs have vulnerable necks and backs .
scaatylobo
Member
I truly question any and all who state the gun to be "the" solution.
Where is that OVERPENETRATING BULLET GOING ?.
And if you watch any 'gel' video's ,you will see that most any round WILL over penetrate !.
Little thought put into the belief that a "bullet" is the solution to this issue.
Best weapon / tool I ever saw deployed was a framers hammer to the head of a pit bull that was latched onto a BIG dog.
So do I!
And how about the one that misses?
That does seem to be the case.
Obturation
Member
Wouldn't you think that depends on the specific situation ?
I absolutely NEVER said to shoot a dog that's on top of a toddler.
Simply that any cartridge will do just fine to redirect or eliminate a dog threat.
Well, I guess there would be countless variables involved with the answer to that question . I would recommend if someone was loaded specifically for canine defense a proper projectile be selected. 44 magnum probably would be a poor choice. Although in my opinion overpenetration is blown way out of proportion , I've asked before if anyone could produce information with regards to civilian shootings where a projectile overpenetrated (not missed) the target and harmed a bystander- I've yet to get a relevant response .
And some underpenetrate , that's just how things go. Gel isn't intended to be a simulated flesh and bone body, simply a consistent media to measure performance of one cartridge to another. You can push your finger right up to the knuckle in gel without much trouble- you'd have to be the witch doctor from Indiana Jones to do that on a living critter.
I suppose the police that shoot dogs may disagree.
Every situation is different. If I had a Rottweiler 2 feet from me and ready to chomp my face, bullet beats hammer 100% of the time. Just the way it is. Dog on top of toddler, maybe not the best or maybe it still is. Too many variables to speculate.
I'm sure it would work fine. But so would just about anything with some mass to it.
Not trying to discredit you or doubt your knowledge or experience. But you take a simple 2 sentence post that answers the OPs question of "what guns best for dogs" with "any type will work" and you spin it to some scenario where I'm saying something unsafe or unreasonable . I didn't say to get a 500 mag and use it to shoot the Chihuahua off a kid. I only meant what I said, dogs aren't difficult to kill . we aren't talking kodiaks and cape buffalo .
Not sure why you took such issue with such a simple answer.
entropy
Member
When some friends and I sat on top of their 'hunting cabin' (an old construction site trailer) one night with bait out to eliminate a pack of feral dogs in their hunting area, we all used shotguns. I chose my duck and pheasant load, 1 3/8 #5 Lubaloy, Win. Red wads with a stiff charge of Blue Dot, and all my shots were DRT's. (I waited until they'd stop moving and pop 'em in the head with a Full choked gun at 10-30 yards.) They wounded a lot of them with trap loads. What was left of the pack never bothered the cabin again. I fired 10 shots for ten dead dogs. They went through at least a box each for a total of five dead dogs between three of them. (Not including the couple of dogs they wounded and slowed down enough for me to finish off.)
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Given what you described in the OP, the answer to your question is "the gun you have at hand".
The problem is you didn't have a gun readily at hand on your person or otherwise. Which, without going through every post in this thread so far, I believe you already understand.
It doesn't really matter if you have the "best gun for dog attack" under this condition.
If long guns are out, then any handgun suitable for violent two-legged critters is suitable. It just needs to be readily accessible.
The problem is you didn't have a gun readily at hand on your person or otherwise. Which, without going through every post in this thread so far, I believe you already understand.
It doesn't really matter if you have the "best gun for dog attack" under this condition.
If long guns are out, then any handgun suitable for violent two-legged critters is suitable. It just needs to be readily accessible.
That I agree with.
Having shot plenty of animals, ranging anywhere from 1 to 2000+ lbs, in the head at point blank range, I can attest that a bullet to the head, at the correct angle, regardless of caliber, will rarely over-penetrate. Now, if the angle is wrong, or if it misses (obviously), then we have a problem, but saying it "WILL" over-penetrate is not an accurate statement.
Hangingrock
Member
Having witnessed dog pack attacks on live stock such as miniature goats as an example, packs have the Alfa male leader. Take out the leader, then follow up on others as required. In this area Donkeys are utilized, mixed in with live stock to protect the other animals. Contact Law Enforcement and Animal Control. I have no problem signing a complaint. Pepper Spray is not always effective. The dog is not the only problem, some of the owners are. Standard excuse " That's not my dog it just hangs around here for some reason.
OP
OP
mrblenderson
Member
So after having given this much thought and reading everyone's responses I think the solution is just to have my j-frame on me whenever we're out of the house and readily accessible inside.
I had stopped carrying when we walked the dog around the neighborhood bc the chances of me getting mugged in my neighborhood are insanely low, but I had never considered the dog threat. People's dogs are constantly getting out here, for whatever reason people in SOFLO are just not careful about it.
We were looking at the humane society website the other day and 18 out of 20 dogs available were pit/bully breeds and almost all of them were strays.
I had stopped carrying when we walked the dog around the neighborhood bc the chances of me getting mugged in my neighborhood are insanely low, but I had never considered the dog threat. People's dogs are constantly getting out here, for whatever reason people in SOFLO are just not careful about it.
We were looking at the humane society website the other day and 18 out of 20 dogs available were pit/bully breeds and almost all of them were strays.
Here are some better ideas that will not create a risk of shooting someone or being charged with the serious crime of public endangerment:
https://www.wikihow.com/Protect-Yourself-from-Dogs-While-Walking
I carry a gun, but I sure don't want to have to use it.
OP
OP
mrblenderson
Member
As in all scenarios, the gun would be my last resort.
I see this statement a lot on this forum. I'm curious about it and what is actually meant by it (specifically as it relates to your OP). When you say "last resort", do you mean that, in the specific scenario you described in the OP, you'd try other things first? What would they be? I can tell you that if I experienced the same thing as you, in my neighborhood, meaning a larger dog had attacked my kid, my wife had kicked the dog off (and both wife and kid were out of the way at that point) and the dog then had my dog by the throat, a gun would be my very first resort, not the last. Trying other things, in that scenario, seems like a waste of time.
The MEME is supposed to be a funny, please take it that way.
OP I live in a "good" area, but am always armed including at/in home and walking the dogs.
I walk them a minimum of 1.5 mile unless inclement weather and carry a Glock 23 minimum.
Do I think I'll need that Glock? Hope not. Never have. Not in 25+ years. Do it anyway.
Pepper spray on walks in case of dog, hope I don't need that either. Pic of my dogs.
OP
OP
mrblenderson
Member
I mean that I am not going to pull it out and start shooting unless it is my only option. In this specific instance, when I came outside he was on top of my dog so my first concern was getting control of him and getting him off my dog's neck. While I was holding him in a choke hold IF I HAD HAD A GUN ON ME I could have drawn it at that time and taken a contact shot to end the situation. I would not have drawn it and started shooting to get him off my dog.
When I took my first pistol training class, my instructor said something that stuck with me - he said that there are 3 levels to consider in any altercation:
1. Legal - Am I legally justified in killing this man?
2. Tactical - Am I physically and mentally capable of killing this man?
3. Moral - Do I have to kill this man?
Same applies to a dog IMO.
Also, in general I carry a firearm, lock-blade knife, and pepper spray. I think of the knife mainly as a tool for opening packages, but it is an option.
I do not think of it like a progression - e.g. I am not going to first try pepper spray on someone, then a knife, then a gun, but there have been a number of situations where pepper spray is a far more reasonable/justified response than a firearm (probably harmless crazy homeless guy bothering people in a restaurant for example). In that situation, if pepper spray doesn't deter as it should the gun is the final option.
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