Thoughts on pistol shotshells?

They are good for small critters at very close distances....Think snake headshots when the snake is within striking distance.

Yeah they are ok for snakes, rats, and mice. Not good past a few feet. Unless you have a big bore like 44spl. Those things have #4 shot. 22lr is #9 I believe.

38-45 Special said:

Are they really viable for their intended use?

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Depends on their intended use.

In Spring, I hunt carpenter bees with a shotshell of walnut media in my .45 Colt Bisley Blackhawk. It's more fun than John Wayne ever had!

38-45 Special said:

We've all undoubtedly seen the CCI Shotshells made for handguns. What are your thoughts on them? Are they really viable for their intended use? And even if they are, what (if any) advantage do they have over just using a conventional handgun or even a shotgun (namely a .410)?

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I've used both CCI and handloaded shotshells in 6" 357 & 2" Mod 60 for probably over 40 years and they work very well on even large rattlers at normal snake ranges......5-6'. On rare occasions, took a 2nd shot, especially with the #9 CCI's especially if stretching the range.

The Mod 60 is always handy & did fine on these w/CCI #9, but I believe the Speer shot capsules recently loaded w/7 1/2" shot from the same 2" Smith will be much better based on pattern @ 6' below. Can't wait to find another rattler. I like that the capsule hit point of aim, to boot.

But if close to the jeep, I reach for the 20 ga Youth NEF shotgun over my left shoulder (white arrow).
Have to back off a bit to give pattern a chance to open up with it, however.


Either one gets 'er done.

Regards
hps

The rimfire ones have very tiny payloads, I haven’t used them in years. The smallest ones I have that are effective are my 380 ACP ones on the far left.

#12 shot is the most effective, speed capsules make it pretty easy to load them.



The my 45 ACP ones that use a cut down .410 wad give the best patterns. Also loads that are slower pattern the best. I work up the powder charge to reliability cycle the action and stop.

edwardware said:

In Spring, I hunt carpenter bees with a shotshell of walnut media in my .45 Colt Bisley Blackhawk. It's more fun than John Wayne ever had!

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Details! I need details, please! My wife spends a fortune on Raid trying to knock them out of the air so she can stomp them. This has got to be easier and more cost effective than that!

I have used a lot of the .38 and .22 ones on pests, effective and don’t leave holes in the barn.

The CCI 9mm shotshells are ok for snakes if you get pretty close. They generally won’t cycle my Glock 34, and I’ve had a few break open the blue plastic shot cup when they didn’t feed right. I had one cycle a Glock 43 but was inconsistent.

Outlaw75 said:

Details! I need details, please! My wife spends a fortune on Raid trying to knock them out of the air so she can stomp them. This has got to be easier and more cost effective than that!

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Badmitton Racquet or a full auto airsoft gun works wonders for me.

Handgun shot shells begin to pattern like a "donut" the further out they get. Rifling spins the bullet like a spiral pass with a football. As the shot exits the barrel it's spinning, the centrifugal force spins the shot outward. The further out the pattern gets the larger the donut.

I've used them on rattle snakes, and they do work....but not much beyond 20 feet.

More expensive than gold! It's Easier to down load a .410 or a 12 gauge to accomplish the same ends. Federal and CCI oughta' be ashamed of their highway robbery. Where is the cheap Chinese steel cased .22 bird shot? Hey! China! wanna' make some money? Make cheap AR trigger assemblies and 22 fine shot!
Hmmm? maybe the laws forbid importation of such delicacies?
Sorry for the rant, but I'm tired of getting soaked for these things!

I killed a big rattlesnake with 38 sp snake shot. Took 3 rounds. Any regular shotgun with birdshot would have been easier and cheaper.

Outlaw75 said:

Details! I need details, please!

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My recipe is:
-45 Colt brass, flash holes drilled out to leave just enough for the anvil to seat against (~5/32")
-whichever LPPs you have on hand
-0.3cc Lee scoop of Clays; Any fast pistol powder will do. With Clays, more is too loud, less seems a mite underpowered. Use whatever you have on hand.
-a cardboard wad (notebook backer, etc), tamped down on the powder.
-a case full of used Walnut media, tamped down
-a second cardboard wad over the rice, tamped down to get it into the case
-a fairly heavy crimp over the wad. . . they don't uncrimp on firing, so you only crimp the first time

Notes:
A 45 ACP case, over-flared and inside-chamfered until sharp, makes a dandy punch to produce the cardboard wads. This is the longest part, and I'll buy Wads next season. . .
If you don't drill the flash holes, you will re-discover that primers partially unseat against the recoil shield upon detonation and reseat during pressure rise; in this case there's no real pressure so they stay unseated, tight against the recoil shield, locking the gun up.
The report is roughly equivalent to a loud paintball gun, so it's hearing safe. This recipe will penetrate a paper poster at 4', but not at 8'; my wife can attest that it will not harm a rose bush from 6' away.
I used to use White Rice, but the ground walnut requires less tamping to get tight.

Edit: I guess I should point out: don't use the drilled brass for full-power loads. . . pressure could be higher with the gaping big flash hole.

edwardware said:

My recipe is:
-45 Colt brass, flash holes drilled out to leave just enough for the anvil to seat against (~5/32")
-whichever LPPs you have on hand
-0.3cc Lee scoop of Clays; Any fast pistol powder will do. With Clays, more is too loud, less seems a mite underpowered. Use whatever you have on hand.
-a cardboard wad (notebook backer, etc), tamped down on the powder.
-a case full of used Walnut media, tamped down
-a second cardboard wad over the rice, tamped down to get it into the case
-a fairly heavy crimp over the wad. . . they don't uncrimp on firing, so you only crimp the first time

Notes:
A 45 ACP case, over-flared and inside-chamfered until sharp, makes a dandy punch to produce the cardboard wads. This is the longest part, and I'll buy Wads next season. . .
If you don't drill the flash holes, you will re-discover that primers partially unseat against the recoil shield upon detonation and reseat during pressure rise; in this case there's no real pressure so they stay unseated, tight against the recoil shield, locking the gun up.
The report is roughly equivalent to a loud paintball gun, so it's hearing safe. This recipe will penetrate a paper poster at 4', but not at 8'; my wife can attest that it will not harm a rose bush from 6' away.
I used to use White Rice, but the ground walnut requires less tamping to get tight.

Edit: I guess I should point out: don't use the drilled brass for full-power loads. . . pressure could be higher with the gaping big flash hole.

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Thanks, but I don't know if I can get away with that in my subdivision. We're in the city limits and it's illegal to discharge a firearm.

CarJunkieLS1 said:

Badmitton Racquet or a full auto airsoft gun works wonders for me.

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D'oh! Hadn't even thought about an air soft!

If you're within literal spitting distance of a rat or snake it can be effective. The 22lr stuff should be within three feet in my experience.

Only self-loader I have seen work with them is a Beretta 92. They feed anything it seems.

Only really good use case was indoor critter hunting. So low power they don't damage structures, richochet harder than simple long sleeves and eyepro will handle. So if you have something already a bit rough (a basement, crawlspace, shed, factory, warehouse...) that won't mind a few more tiny holes, and lots of critters that either are too wily for traps, time is of the essence, or you just want the entertainment, that reportedly works.

No, never got to do it myself, but have two reliable reports of this activity, with solid results.

NOTE: they are still firearms, police will be Very Disappointed In You if you are caught firing them in any city limits, or even in the county near a road, school, etc etc. Air guns dominate the direct-fire, lethal critter removal largely for this reason.

I've used the CCI shotshells in my .38/357 revolvers with great success in dispatching slithering devils that I came across on my land. I really never have used in an auto pistol. For self-defense, no way! JHP's!

I put a dusting of Bullseye in a .45 Colt case, then seat a gas check, open end up, all the way down. Fill the case with small shot (I use #8) then put a second gas check, open side down in the case mouth. Crimp. It does a great job -- if you have one with you when you find a snake.

I use CCI .22 shot cartridges to kill rats in the barn.

So far I have only tried them in my Walther P99 in 40. They have enough power in that caliber and action to cycle and load the next round like a regular round. I usually load 3 in a magazine to fire in a string at the range at only a few yards or less before snake season starts.

38-45 Special said:

We've all undoubtedly seen the CCI Shotshells made for handguns. What are your thoughts on them? Are they really viable for their intended use? And even if they are, what (if any) advantage do they have over just using a conventional handgun or even a shotgun (namely a .410)?

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IMO they are a gimmick, useful only for trick shots breaking balloons in wild west shows.

Jack Ryan said:

IMO they are a gimmick, useful only for trick shots breaking balloons in wild west shows.

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Yes and no. I remember one time I was in my barn, and there was a copperhead about 3 feet long. All I had was a Colt .45 with cast bullets. Since I already have all the hearing loss I want, I didn't shoot -- but if I'd had a quiet shot shell in one chamber, it would have been different.

I never go hunting without the 60; first two rounds of shot backed up w/3 158 gr. hard cast lead 'cause we have lots of good sized rattlers down here. The CCI has been about 99% effective to 8' or so, even on large snakes, but once in a while they'll take a 2nd shot.

Never carried the 1911 hunting, but did pattern some CCI's through it which patterned well and worked the action reliably, so should be a bit better snake medicine than the 38's. Hoping to try out the 71/2 handloads in the little Smith on a snake before too long.

Never tried .22 RF CCI, but picked up some of the old style crimped "rat shot" 22's when trying to sell my MIL's house on a resaca a number of years ago. There were some very large birds roosting in her willow trees and decorating them in white. Tried everything to discourage them and finally decided to pepper them w/the rat shot when they came to roost. I'd shot some rat shot when I was a kid many years before and remembered it as being fairly quiet in a rifle, so didn't worry too much about the noise, even though this was in city limits.

Wouldn't ya know, I got to the house about sundown only to realize that I forgot to bring the key to the 5' hurricane fence, so I climbed the fence and went into the back yard to await the incoming birds. It was at least 100 yards to nearest house across the resaca, so wasn't worried about shot reaching that far.

Well, the birds landed and I maneuvered so as to get a clear shot at the nearest bird, which was at least 25-30 yards away. Figured that was close enough to dust him pretty well but not penetrate the feathers. Like the little boy said, "I had a plan." Turns out it was not a very good plan. Just as I squeezed the trigger, the bird spread his wings as if to take off. Darn if that rat shot didn't drop him like a ton of bricks.........and LOUD! ! Couldn't believe how loud that thing was and even more surprised that it killed the bird. Talk about the golden BB!

Regards,
hps

I've periodically made up 38 special shot shells using over and under cardboard wads, and also using a gas check as an over wad. Never could figure out how to get a (aluminum) gas check deep enough into a 38 special case to use it as an over powder wad. Maybe I need to try copper.

Load I have used is 6.0 grains of AA #5 under 1.0 cc of #9 birdshot, PPU case, WSP. I shot these out of an SP101 357 from 10 feet got a good pattern and passed through both sides of a heavy cardboard box (the kind used for liquid detergent bottles by the case). Have never used on a snake though, defaulting to a snub 410 revolver with birdshot, which has never failed to stop.

I'm not especially scared of snakes, but I respect the venomous ones ability to cause great harm.

unclenunzie said:

I've periodically made up 38 special shot shells using over and under cardboard wads, and also using a gas check as an over wad. Never could figure out how to get a (aluminum) gas check deep enough into a 38 special case to use it as an over powder wad. Maybe I need to try copper.

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Get a Lee sizing die. I run .45 Colt gas checks through a .44 Mag sizing die -- lubricate them first!!