Federal’s 327 Magnum is a griz cartridge

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jski

jski

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Yep, it’s official boys, Federal’s 327 Magnum, which by the way I REALLY like, is now officially a grizzly cartridge.

I’ve been wondering thru the wastelands of autoloader weenie land and I’ve see repeated claims that the 9mm is a perfectly adequate grizzly cartridge for wondering about the wilds of Alaska.

Now upon reading that, I immediately visited Buffalo Bore website, I looked up their baddest badass 9mm vs their baddest badass 327 magnum.
HEAVY 327 FEDERAL OUTDOORSMAN
130 gr. Hard Cast Keith @ 1,300 fps

9MM Luger +P+ PENETRATOR Ammo
124 gr. FMJ-FN - (1,300 fps/M.E. 465 ft. lbs.)
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Well, lo and behold, the 327 outperforms the mighty 9mm. It certainly has greater energy and sectional density and I bet better ballistic coefficient.
 
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I wander how many 9mm converts would be saying that if shoemaker hadn’t done it. I used to think you needed a howitzer to kill bears but now I realize your just punching holes until it stops. Whatever flavor you punch holes with the best I say. :thumbup:
 
I’ve been to Alaska but I went without seeing a single Grizzly on my trip... with my luck ‘bout the only grizzly I’ll ever see is on the Ca. State flag...

Stay safe.
 
Here’s my take on the 9mm bear nonsense. The gun manufacturers understand that gen-x, gen-z, millennials, whatever, are autoloader fanboys, so they had to come up with an autoloader solution for bears.

Well, what’s a manufacturer to do with all but 1 auto round being completely inadequate for bears?

So, they took their biggest, baddest, auto round, the 10mm, and said: good enough. Does it compare to magnum wheelgun cartridges? Hell no but the gen-x, gen-z, millennials don’t know that.

So, find some guy in Alaska to claim he shot 1/2 dozen 1,500 lb grizzlies with one mag of 10mm’s and problem solved!
 
jski said:
Here’s my take on the 9mm bear nonsense. The gun manufacturers understand that gen-x, gen-z, millennials, whatever, are autoloader fanboys, so they had to come up with an autoloader solution for bears.

Well, what’s a manufacturer to do with all but 1 auto round being completely inadequate for bears?

So, they took their biggest, baddest, auto round, the 10mm, and said: good enough. Does it compare to magnum wheelgun cartridges? Hell no but the gen-x, gen-z, millennials don’t know that.

So, find some guy in Alaska to claim he shot 1/2 dozen 1,500 lb grizzlies with one mag of 10mm’s and problem solved!
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So by your logic there is a large swath of folks in their 40s and early 50s who don't/can't/won't understand ballistics? Got it.
 
Fiv3r said:
So by your logic there is a large swath of folks in their 40s and early 50s who don't/can't/won't understand ballistics? Got it.
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I gave up when I heard Tim on the Military Arms Channel say the 10mm is “basically a 41 magnum”. If Tim’s either knowingly peddling BS or unknowingly doing so, what’s the chance that there is a “large swath” of people who meet your description?

And yeah, there has been a generational change. When I was a kid in the 70s growing up, the gun culture was focused on hunting. That isn’t true today. Sure, people still go hunting but that’s no long the central focus.
 
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jski said:
Here’s my take on the 9mm bear nonsense. The gun manufacturers understand that gen-x, gen-z, millennials, whatever, are autoloader fanboys, so they had to come up with an autoloader solution for bears.

Well, what’s a manufacturer to do with all but 1 auto round being completely inadequate for bears?

So, they took their biggest, baddest, auto round, the 10mm, and said: good enough. Does it compare to magnum wheelgun cartridges? Hell no but the gen-x, gen-z, millennials don’t know that.

So, find some guy in Alaska to claim he shot 1/2 dozen 1,500 lb grizzlies with one mag of 10mm’s and problem solved!
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No mention of size or determination either. Was it a yearling or a true Bruin? Trophy hunting is not glamorous anymore so I suspect that to be the cause of the lacking size info, but still any bear can make for a bad day, but a 9mm can make for a bad day for many bears. Kill shots, likely only a small bear or several hits, and that is the rub. 327fm typically comes in guns with 6 charge holes. Is 6 enough? I would greatly prefer the 9mm simply because common guns give me all but 3 times the number of rounds and the rounds essentially match up on numbers to measure each other against.
 
The evolution of the 9mm going from an "also ran" cartridge to the status of "Super 9" it enjoys today has been puzzling to me to say the least. For it now to be considered adequate for large, toothy critters is just amazing. To now stretch that to include a .31" caliber revolver is beyond amazing. It borders on silly.

The old adage of "any gun (cartridge) will do if you will do" applies but it doesn't mean you go out to face a brown or black bear with what ever. That adage is saying the shooter is the most important element not a recommendation for carry guns in bear country.

I've always been told, and I always trained people to prepare for the worst case scenario, not for the one in 10,000 lucky chance. Life has a way of turning into a stinky brown sandwich way too often to trust the minimum for anything.

YMMV,
Dave
 
Wow, not only do we get a "bear cartridge" thread, but we ALSO get to see a generation war?!! Can this day get any better?

I'll just stay on the sidelines, because as a millennial who carries a .357 mag revolver I must be truly lost.

I'm going to sit and contemplate why Mr. Browning dedicated so much time and energy to perfecting autoloaders when he should have known that they were going to be completely ignored for 100+ years until the grunge Gen X'ers and us lazy millennials decided to fall in love with that newfangled autoloading technology and the 100 year old 9mm luger.

Seriously though, I'm glad I live, hunt, fish and hike in an area where the most dangerous wildlife is raccoons with rabies. If I make the odd camping or fishing trip out of state, it's always been to black bear territory where the 9mm or .357 mag is perfectly suited.
 
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@bassjam well said. Glad we could combine bears and demeaning any gun knowledge that 40% of the population has attained.

I like the idea of a Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull, I also happen to like the idea of a Glock 40 in 10mm; both for hunting backups. :what:

I'm not quite a millennial (a few years too old) which is good because born a few years later and I would be a mush brained millennial walking through:
jski said:
autoloader weenie land
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@jski we get it you don't like millennial's or auto-loaders; somewhere in your domicile there is a revolver ready to be polished.
 
BreechFace said:
@bassjam well said. Glad we could combine bears and demeaning any gun knowledge that 40% of the population has attained.

I like the idea of a Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull, I also happen to like the idea of a Glock 40 in 10mm; both for hunting backups. :what:

I'm not quite a millennial (a few years too old) which is good because born a few years later and I would be a mush brained millennial walking through:

@jski we get it you don't like millennial's or auto-loaders; somewhere in your domicile there is a revolver ready to be polished.
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I have millennials for children, so I can’t be too critical here. I posted this somewhat tongue in cheek. But having heard/read all the claims about using 9s & 10s for everything imaginable then grizzlies, it just got out of hand.

When I tell 10mm fanboys that it isn’t even equivalent to the 357, they usually become incensed: “ridiculous!” Then I tell them to go to Buffalo Bore’s website and compare the baddest badass 357 to the baddest badass 10. Then come the excuses.
 
I’m a huge .327 Fan Boy but see it it as nothing more then a coyote on down cartridge. I know some folks will disagree and use it on larger game and that’s fine by me.

Buffalo Bore can claim whatever they want for any caliber they make rounds for. As someone whose hunted and killed black bear and spends a lot of time in actual grizzly country I’ll carry something which meets MY risk assessment needs. Those needs aren’t meet by .312 diameter 120-130 grain handgun bullets in big bear country.

Also, surprisingly to me at least is the fact they went with a .312 diameter cast bullet instead of at least .313 and what seems to be the most popular choice in .314 for cast. I say that for no other reason than I’ve seen more heavy for caliber .327 FM bullets in that range (.313/.314). Id like to hear BB’s rationale for this.
 
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jski said:
Then I tell them to go to Buffalo Bore’s website and compare the baddest badass 357 to the baddest badass 10. Then come the excuses.
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They are in spitting distance with each other, with a heavy nod going to the 10mm for 15+1 capacity and easier follow up shots. The 357 no doubt will have a penetration advantage, but the 10mm is boring a bigger hole.

10mm%20vs%20357%20cartridges%20from%20buffalo%20bore%20and%20underwood%20-%2009.21.20.png

I'll agree with you for sure that its ridiculous to say that the 10mm equals the 41mag on power, that's nonsense. And MAC should know better.
 
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Frulk said:
I’m a huge .327 Fan Boy but see it it as nothing more then a coyote on down cartridge. I know some folks will disagree and use it on larger game and that’s fine by me.

Buffalo Bore can claim whatever they want for any caliber they make rounds for. As someone whose hunted and killed black bear and spends a lot of time in actual grizzly country I’ll carry something which meets MY risk assessment needs. Those needs aren’t meet by .312 diameter 120-130 grain handgun bullets in big bear country.

Also, surprisingly to me at least is the fact they went with a .312 diameter cast bullet instead of at least .313 and what seems to be the most popular choice in .314 for cast. I say that for no other reason than I’ve seen more heavy for caliber .327 FM bullets in that range (.313/.314). Id like to hear BB’s rationale for this.
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I hope you are aware that I said the 327 is a “griz cartridge” to poke fun of the claims of using the 9mm as a “griz cartridge”.
 
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Meeks36 said:
I seem to remember a lady killing a massive bear with a 22lr. Me thinks shot placement is king. Use what you are familiar with. If you can put a few rounds of 9mm in the right place problem solved.
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Yes, they are. But the point is that the 10mm AIN’T NO 41 magnum. Not close! And it’s not even a 357.
 
Frulk said:
Also, surprisingly to me at least is the fact they went with a .312 diameter cast bullet instead of at least .313 and what seems to be the most popular choice in .314 for cast. I say that for no other reason than I’ve seen more heavy for caliber .327 FM bullets in that range (.313/.314). Id like to hear BB’s rationale for this.
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I know it’s a hard alloy, but I wonder if it’s gas checked. That may be reason for going bore size nominal instead of slightly oversized.
 
jski said:
I gave up when I heard Tim on the Military Arms Channel say the 10mm is “basically a 41 magnum”. If Tim’s either knowingly peddling BS or unknowingly doing so, what’s the chance that there is a “large swath” of people who meet your description?

And yeah, there has been a generational change. When I was a kid in the 70s growing up, the gun culture was focused on hunting. That isn’t true today. Sure, people still go hunting but that’s no long the central focus.
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Agree
 
jski said:
Yes, they are. But the point is that the 10mm AIN’T NO 41 magnum. Not close! And it’s not even a 357.
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Never said it was or wasn't. I own neither. Looking for a 41 mag. Haven't found a affordable one yet.
 
I've enjoyed this discussion, even though I've never had occasion to shoot any bears with anything. From what I've read, the .327 is a seriously high performance little cartridge. I don't have a .327, but who know what the future holds.

I'm far too old to be included in any of the generations mentioned, But admit I am a 9 and 10MM fan. I've reloaded for .357, .41, .44 and .454, as well as the 10MM. Having done that, and much as I like the 10MM, IMHO the 10 is no way equal to the .41 magnum when both cartridge's are loaded to their safe potential. I've always believed the 10 to be closer to the .357 Magnum.

FWIW, the BB 180 grain actually does a chronographed ~1400 FPS in my 4" and 5" revolvers. The BB 10MM averages 1380 FPS in my 5" semi-auto, so not quite up to .357 from this manufacturer. Couple other 10MM loads I've chronographed over the years since it's introduction; in a 5" semi-auto: The original 200 grain Norma=1219 FPS, the Corbon 135 grain=1533 FPS. So I think the 10MM is in the .357 ballpark, rather than the .41 Magnum's......ymmv
 
WestKentucky said:
I know it’s a hard alloy, but I wonder if it’s gas checked. That may be reason for going bore size nominal instead of slightly oversized.
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Thanks WK... forgot to take that into consideration. Even with that all the GC .327 FMs I’ve shot have been either .313/.314
 
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