wiscoaster
Member
Forgive a dumb question from a large-caliber bolt-action rifle build newbie: does .270 Win require a long action regardless of rifle maker and model, or is it one those "it depends" issues? Thanks...
.270 Win long action?
- Thread starter wiscoaster
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The .270 is part of the 06 family of cartridge (I know, I know, it's closer to an 03...lemme alone)....
They all require long actions with a coal of about 3.2-3.5" depending on bullets/loads.
If your considering the .270 be aware that the standard twist rate of 1-10, while fantastic for most common hunting bullets, won't stabilize the very long VLD designs that are becoming available. My last one wouldn't run 150gr ABLRs, but shot 145eldxs fantastically.
wiscoaster
Member
OK, so if the barrel has a twist rate of 1:10 then I should stick with the lighter weight bullets below 150 grains?
.455_Hunter
Member
The blunter hunting grade 150 JSPs are fine.
It's really about length. A 160gr rnd nose would likely be shorter than a 145gr VLD type etc. You can play with some of these calculators to see what just changing the length a little can do with stability.
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
Basically for a TRADITIONAL hunting bullet of any weight the 1-10 should be enough....or at least any weight I've seen.
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
Basically for a TRADITIONAL hunting bullet of any weight the 1-10 should be enough....or at least any weight I've seen.
Garandimal
member
Spitzer 150 gr. bullets are fine.
Speer Hot-Cor/Grand Slam, Nosler Partition, etc.
160 gr. blunt nosed Nosler Partition is the top.
140 gr. mono-coppers like the Barnes TSX is the top.
Only heavy-for-caliber VLD bullets will give you grief... and you don't need them in the .270 WCF anyway.
GR
I think that's more about usage than the round itself. For general big game hunting, there probably isn't a huge advantage to being able to shoot VLDs. For someone looking at, say a long range lower recoil practice rifle, or the guys that genuinely do shoot 400+yds on a regular basis, it could.
I have a brand new 1-10, .270win barrel I need to figgure out what to do with, but no long actions that use a standard bolt face. So I may ream it to .270wby, and run it on my American. That set up would be used to shoot pointy 130-140s.
My personal feeling on the 1-10 the .270 and the .25s carry is that (this is gonna be pretty irrational) I feel like I'm leaving performance on the table.
I had the same issue with my 6-284.
Its like, I got all this powder, I should be able to stuff a long slippery bullet out front and put it to use.
Don't NEED any of it, I do just fine on steel and squish, with a .450ish bc bullet at 2850fps.....but i WANTS IT!
So take anything I say on the matter with grain of salt, and that in mind......
I had the same issue with my 6-284.
Its like, I got all this powder, I should be able to stuff a long slippery bullet out front and put it to use.
Don't NEED any of it, I do just fine on steel and squish, with a .450ish bc bullet at 2850fps.....but i WANTS IT!
So take anything I say on the matter with grain of salt, and that in mind......
wiscoaster
Member
I'm looking at a Bergara Premier barreled action for drop into an Oryx chassis to be used as a long-range precision target rifle. It has a 1:10 twist rate. Just love those Bergara bolts ... gotta have one. Was originally thinking 6.5 Creedmoor, but it looks like the .270 Win gives similar ballistics, has a heavier bullet, and is cheaper per round (I'm not a hand loader). Not to mention for resale, if it ever comes to that, would be more attractive as a hunting rifle, no?
Hunting rifle yes, precision rifle (which most people assume a chassis gun is), less so. Again because that game usually calls for a vld bullet.
Personally I'd like to get a 1-8.5 .270 and try some of the newer bullets out there. Shaw was supposed to make the barrel i have in 1-8.5, but couldn't get the tooling for all the Rona running around....
If you're debating 270 vs 6.5 CM, go 6.5. You should be able to get 6.5 CM ammo cheaper than 270 all things being equal. the 270 has been a staple hunting cartridge since the 1950's it is fading in popularity. In 2018 nearly 1/2 of all bolt rifles sold were in 6.5 CM. The 308 only accounted for about 10%. The old standby 270 and 30-06 weren't even listed in the chart I saw. They were lumped together in the "other" category. Many new rifles being introduced lately don't even offer 270 or 30-06 as options anymore. Everybody that wants a 270 or a 30-06 already has one. If you're thinking resale value go with the 6.5.
As a pure hunting cartridge the 270 still has an edge, but it isn't much. With similar bullet weights 270 has about 200 fps advantage at the muzzle and at any hunting range will shoot slightly flatter. While the 6.5 starts slower within 200 yards the advantage is cut considerably and by the time you get to 300 yards there isn't enough difference to matter. But the 6.5 does it with about 30% less recoil. There isn't any animal you'd hunt with one that the other wouldn't be suitable for.
But if you ever want to go really long range the much more aerodynamic 6.5 bullets start leaving the 270 behind.
Garandimal
member
wiscoaster
Member
No, not at the moment, but can't speak to pre-pandemic.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Just for argument, I own a Heym Mauser 98 mid-length action rifle in 30-06 marketed by Monkey Wards in the 1960s. They managed to squeeze 30-06 and 270 into it, but the factory modification to the front of magazine box to make longer rounds fit wasn't pretty:
So while it is technically possible to use a slightly shorter action, you're far better off using a longer action!
So while it is technically possible to use a slightly shorter action, you're far better off using a longer action!
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wiscoaster
Member
Ick, that is ugly!! Looks somebody clumsy took a vise-grip to it. 
rayatphonix
Member
I have several Bergara Premier rifles, all in short action. If I had a Premier with a long action I’d go 280AI and never look back. But I reload. The 280AI gives a performance boost over both the 270 Win and the Creedmoor. Bergara can rebarrel their Premier rifles for you.
Garandimal
member
Ick, that is ugly!! Looks somebody clumsy took a vise-grip to it.
Back in the day... skip-line checkering was Premium.
My ole M700 has it.
Not a fan, either.
GR
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Yeah, hard to imagine a company like Heym doing something like this, but I guess they were pretty hard up for business. Especially glaring given the neat floorplate lever.
My buddy Ron has virtually the exact same Wards model in '06; his has a blued bolt sleeve, a nicer period-correct scope, the original front sight hood (mine was missing when I bought it) and the white spacers that I took off -- plus the same ugly triggerguard modification under the stock:
I wish I could have found one of these in .308, but I don't think that chambering had as much appeal back then. My guess is the action was originally dimensioned for 7x57, perhaps repurposed from a cancelled contract. There's "Made in W. Germany" rubber-stamped inside of the stock:
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Not a fan either. The period association is comforting for me, though. It's like a car with tail fins, chrome and Dagmars.
JFrank
Member
There are outstanding Bullets in the 130 & 140 grain range that stabilize wonderfully in a .27 caliber with a 1-10 twist.
JFrank
Member
I’ve no experience with Bergara rifles so my comments will be generalized regarding their barrels that are pulled button with no mention of hand lapping at the finished stage, I don’t recall if Douglas has pushed or pulled but one method doesn’t require lapping where the other hasn’t much choice same as cut rifling requires lapping.
My understanding is that Bergara are not inexpensive to purchase so why take it a part and put it in a chassis?
There are other options.
marksman13
Member
If you are not hand loading and you want a precision rifle instead of a hunting rifle, the advantage goes to the 6.5 CM over the 270 and it is not even close. Factory match ammunition for the 6.5 CM is available everywhere from every manufacturer. That can not be said for the 270 Win. Your original thought was correct.
DocRock
member
No. .270 and the 30-06 family cartridges are all standard action length. The difference between most manufacturers standard action and a 308 Win short action is less than 1/2” and a few ounces, ie completely negligible. Long actions for belted magnum cartridges are a little thinner on the ground.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Good point. I think we should back up and ask the OP which action he is considering into for his rifle.
On further reflection, I guess it does depend -- the terminology can vary according to the maker. For example, Mauser action lengths are generally referred to as kurz, intermediate, standard and long/magnum. Remington 700 actions are either short or long. I think the Kimber 84 is either medium or long -- I don't recall seeing an 84S from them. And so on.
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