“Federal Rifled Slug”

mnrivrat said:

I live in slug only territory . I hunted deer with a 20 gauge. My best deer/slug gun was an old Stevens Model 620 with a shorted barrel. Sweated on a set of Remington sights. This gun liked Remington slugs. It shot amazingly well and would (no kidding) shoot 3 shot groups with all three holes touching each other at 50 yards. A friend of mine begged to buy it and since I didn't hunt every year I sold it. (like a dummy). A few years later I ended up buying a Remington 1100 standard 20 gauge and actually found a factory slug barrel for it. I bought 6 brands of slugs and patterned each through this gun. A 2&1/2 - to 3 inch group at 50 yards was best it would do with Remington slugs so that was now my dear gun. That season I took a nice doe. My first shot at near 100 yards just missed the heart and took out the lungs. The deer took off running like it hadn't been hit. Lucky enough she ran parallel to me. My second shot a miss, but my third shot took her just above the ear and dropped her like a rock. I have hunted with other here in slug country and watch deer take two to three body shots before getting hit with a spine shot before dropping, or will go a half mile or more before dropping from a lung or gut shot. Slug penetration's are always good ,generally going completely through, but placement is critical or you will need to track them. They seem to make it to someone else's land before dropping which can be a problem. Head and spine shots are best, bone shots are OK. Otherwise they are going some distance even with a heart or lung shot. My experience Just FYI . As far as those 3" Federals go they are going to kick like a mule. I did sight ins for a local gun shop. I also have a destroyed rotor cup I attribute to those sight ins and particularly to 12 gauge 3 inch slugs. To me they are an overkill. All the energy after the slug exit is wasted. Just my biased opinion.

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I've heard plenty of stories of deer being shot with slugs and running 100+ yards before dropping. Personally I've never had one take a single step when shot with a 12ga 1oz slug, but then again all my shots are pretty close so it's easier to get the right shot placement. I generally hunt with a buddy who has a 20 ga and he's never had one run either. And like you said, it's generally a clean through and through with 2-3/4" loads, I see no reason for 3" for whitetail.

The two I shot with slugs were close also, 35, and 60 yards. The 35 yard one took two steps forward, and dropped. The second one went 75 yards or so, then dropped. It had just been shot at on the neighboring property. I tried to whistle to get it to stop, but I'd just eaten some of those peanut butter filled crackers. My son coughed, and the buck stopped there (pun intended) and I dropped him. Both aorta shots.

OTOH, my Dad dropped a doe that another hunter had gut shot a minute before. It was trying to sneak around the back of a hill to get away from the guy, and it stopped. My Dad hit her with a sabot slug at 225 yards, high lung shot, and she just slumped over. As thanks, the guy yelled over, "I hope you don't think that's your deer!" My Dad yelled back, "Nope, just didn't want it to get away from you!"

I think it's fair to say if a deer has it in it's head to run it's going to run. The next deer might take the same hit and drop in it's tracks. Sometimes there's just no making sense of it.

There usually is. It's related to it's alert status. If they're in "condition white", to use the Cooper terms, it's usually a bang-flop. If they are in "condition yellow" it might be a bang-flop, or it might run some. My first deer, a spike buck, was in condition yellow, because he was trailing a doe I'd let pass me, because I heard him before I saw him. He was a bang-flop. So was the 6 pt. I dropped as he was making his way to my Dad, who was rattling. If they are in "condition orange" they will run, the adrenaline is coursing through their veins by then. The forkhorn I shot had been tracked through a swamp, (very noisily, I might add) by another hunter when I put a 165 Partition in his aorta and through both lungs, yet he still went 75 yards, took off like a rocket. The 6 pt. I got when my older son was with on his 'first hunt' (he didn't have a gun, he was 8) was in "condition red" and had just been shot at by the neighbor. He had just started to slow to a trot when he passed in front of me. My son coughed, and the buck stopped. I again hit the aorta and both lungs, and this one also went 75 yards before dropping. I figure he was already more tired than the swamp buck, because he'd been at a full out run for about 1/4 mile before I saw him. It's always best to get them in "condition white", like the doe I got with my muzzleloader. She never knew I was there till the 385 gr. HBHP conical hit her high in the lungs, (I held about 4" too high, but better than too low.) She went about 20 feet, over the top of the hill, and laid down. I waited for about 5 minutes, (seemed like 5 hours) while I reloaded the 1100 that was my back up gun (I'd emptied it at the other 4 deer on the hill: missed all of them, including a nice 8 pt. buck who was about 175 yards from me; the doe was 125 when I shot her with the .50) I walked up the hill, crested it, and the doe stuck her head up; I put one through her neck, end of story. She was by far the best tasting venison I ever had, because she was in Condition White when I shot her, and her belly was full of 'creamed corn' when I accidently nicked it during field dressing.

GooseGestapo said:

Contrary to what some here have reported, I’ve found 12ga Foster slug penetration to be disappointing.
The slugs being soft lead flatten out to something resembling a flat washer. Especially the so-called hollow point versions.

I’ve never had a Foster slug completely penetrate a deer. Our deer run small, up to perhaps 180lbs.
Coupled with underwhelming accuracy, they are a poor choice.
I hunt an area that is slug only. Therefore I now use a Mossberg M220.
It shoots 4-5” at 100yds with the Federal 7/8oz sabot slug. The Remington AeroTip slugs group around 2.5” at 100yds. No success with it yet...

I’ve developed a sabot load using a Lee .54 REAL bullet in a wad that’s showing promise.

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Interesting observation regarding penetration that I have not seen. I have seen a number of foster style slugs enter and exit deer. In the past the foster slug used in Alaska's bear country was the go to ammunition for guides and members of the wildlife service. At least that was my understanding. One would think if they gave poor penetration that they would give poor performance in that capacity. Perhaps someone who spent time in Alaska in the past could give comment. I have only used them and seen results of their use on deer shot by members of my hunting party. Sabot rounds were just coming into play about the time my health stopped my hunting carrier.

Cvans said:

I think it's fair to say if a deer has it in it's head to run it's going to run. The next deer might take the same hit and drop in it's tracks. Sometimes there's just no making sense of it.

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.
Perhaps some deer are smarter than others. They know they are dead and don't want to waste their last minute running.

entropy said:

There usually is. It's related to it's alert status. If they're in "condition white", to use the Cooper terms, it's usually a bang-flop. If they are in "condition yellow" it might be a bang-flop, or it might run some.

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Seems logical. Every deer I've ever shot was "condition white", just slowly ambling along on the way to its bed in the morning or on the way to a field in the evening. I just lean up against a tree, 20 yards off their path and wait for them to come. And like I've said none I shot with a 12 ga slug took a single step. The only other firearm I've used is my .357mag lever action, and I've only took one deer with that rifle. That was also a "condition white" situation, and as soon as the deer was hit it jumped straight up in the air and landed 3ft away on the far side of a large log, dead by the time it hit the ground. I wasn't even sure it jumped like I remembered in my mind, but I ended up digging the bullet out of the log so I know it was standing on the near side when I shot it.

bassjam said:

it's generally a clean through and through with 2-3/4" loads, I see no reason for 3" for whitetail.

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.. Back in the smoothbore, pre-rifled barrel 1980's I went through a phase where I used 12 ga., 3" Foster slugs, thinking they were more effective, until it dawned on me that the deer couldn't tell the difference and the 2 & 3/4" Winchester Foster style slugs actually were more accurate from my 870. Went back to 2 & 3/4" slugs exclusively and even though that same 870 now has a fully rifled barrel I still use 2 & 3/4" Sabot slugs. If I had to replace my slug gun today I'd get a fully rifled 20 ga. like a Savage 220 as with rifling & 20 ga. Sabot slugs a 12 ga. isn't really needed.

Ignorance sure is bliss.

After more than a hundred deer and hogs shot and killed with foster and sabot slugs and a long history of DRTs and very short death runs, as well as over 75 deer and hogs shot with bottleneck rifle rounds, I will say that within 50 yds, 12 or 20 ga slugs are superior to any rifle rounds at the same ranges.

With one caveat, I said bottleneck rifle rounds before. Big straight wall rounds like 444 Marlin, 45-70, and 450 Bushmaster have similar results to sabot slugs at the same shorter ranges.

YMM (and apparently does)V.

But yeah, after 50 or so yards, rifle rounds are pretty much head and shoulders above shotguns.

In my experience and contacts in Alaska, the overwhelming majority of users of 12ga shotguns to include a couple of Alaska Troopers (aka gamewardens) carry the Brenneke 1-1/4oz “Black Magic” or classic. A totally different animal from the hollow cup of the Foster slugs.