Rifle optics upgrade

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kmw1954

kmw1954

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Current setup; Savage Axis 223 with KonusPro 3-9X40 Model 275

Looking to upgrade this scope and up the magnification as well. Actually for an inexpensive scope this Konus is very clear and bright and holds it's settings. I do like the reticle on this scope.

What I an looking at would either be a Vortex Diamondback or Crossfire in something like a 4-12 or 4-16 and the Tactical FFP or also looking at the Burris Fullfield II or the Fullfield E1 in 4.5-12. Have also looked at the Votex Viper HS 4-16X44 but that one is nearly double what the others cost. Would like to stay under $250.00

So enlighten me please!
 
You might try a Tract 22Fire 4-12X T-Plex . It is a rimfire scope, but is rugged and built better than many centerfire scopes for only $194 shipped. They can offer these low prices because you deal directly with them and cut out the middle man. These scopes are better than some my well-known brands for much less money. However, it is back-ordered at present, but worth the wait. Here's the link:

https://tractoptics.com/all-products/22-fire-4-12x40-t-plex

BTW...I also have a Burris FullField II 4.5-14X and it's very good, but not the quality of the Tract. I have it on a 17HMR now and had it on a .270.......works well on both rifles. Can be had for <$250. It may have the magnification you are looking for. Let us know what you get.
 
Sniper66 said:
You might try a Tract 22Fire 4-12X T-Plex . It is a rimfire scope, but is rugged and built better than many centerfire scopes for only $194 shipped. They can offer these low prices because you deal directly with them and cut out the middle man. These scopes are better than some my well-known brands for much less money. However, it is back-ordered at present, but worth the wait. Here's the link:

https://tractoptics.com/all-products/22-fire-4-12x40-t-plex

BTW...I also have a Burris FullField II 4.5-14X and it's very good, but not the quality of the Tract. I have it on a 17HMR now and had it on a .270.......works well on both rifles. Can be had for <$250. It may have the magnification you are looking for. Let us know what you get.
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Seems like a good product, would be nice if it had an adjustable objective for shooting longer distances.
 
IMHO, the Vortex CrossFire is their "budget" line, probably below the quality of what it is replacing. The Burris Fullfields are nice, I prefer the E1 glass. BUT, the E1 BDC reticle is fine. Great for targets at distance, horrible for low-light hunting. My .30/06 currently has an E1 scope with the duplex crosshairs, and I couldn't be happier.
 
The older FF-II scopes were great for the money and were always my 1st choice when someone was asking about a budget scope. I could never like the E-1. And I think Burris has replaced the FF-II with a newer scope. I simply have no idea how it compares. But there are lots of the older FF-II scopes still out there.

Vortex; I neither love, nor hate them. The glass is clear enough, but that isn't the only thing scopes are judged on. You can get a Leupold VX-Freedom in your price range and have a better scope. I'm not sure either Vortex would really be an upgrade over what you have.

https://www.swfa.com/leupold-3-9x40-vx-freedom-riflescope-178475.html?___SID=U
https://www.swfa.com/leupold-4-12x40-vx-freedom-riflescope.html?___SID=U

More X's = more $$$$. And not necessarily more quality. The 3-9X40's are the value leaders among all manufacturers, you'll get more scope for the money in that range. The 4-12X scope above is $50 more than the 3-9X for the same quality scope. And you probably won't need anything greater than 9X. Looking through a scope at a 300 yard target the difference between a 9X and 12X scope is pretty insignificant. And there are some negatives once you get above 10X.

Myself, my brother, and a couple of other friends have fixed 6X scopes on several of our rifles. We've shot them out to 600 yards and been able to get sub MOA groups. Quality glass and a fine crosshair make more difference than a few more X's.
 
I'll endorse the Fullfield E-1. Have one on my Weatherby Vanguard 223 and it is probably my favorite scope I own. I got mine for around $160 and I consider that a steal.
 
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Thanks for the replies!

Some are saying these scopes that I am looking at may not be any better than what I already have on this gun. I personally do not know the difference. I have only found little bits about the Konus scopes and hardly nothing about the one I have.

More background here, this is a gun that was bought as an entry level attempt at rifle shooting and mostly to 100 and 200 yards and not used for hunting. Though I would possibly like to try steel targets at some point.

From what I understand the Fullfield II and the Fullfield E1 are two separate scopes. Exactly what the difference is other than the reticle again I don't know.
 
kmw1954 said:
Thanks for the replies!

Some are saying these scopes that I am looking at may not be any better than what I already have on this gun. I personally do not know the difference. I have only found little bits about the Konus scopes and hardly nothing about the one I have.

More background here, this is a gun that was bought as an entry level attempt at rifle shooting and mostly to 100 and 200 yards and not used for hunting. Though I would possibly like to try steel targets at some point.

From what I understand the Fullfield II and the Fullfield E1 are two separate scopes. Exactly what the difference is other than the reticle again I don't know.
Click to expand...

I think the optics are supposedly slightly improved on the E1? Only had an E1, so dont have anything to compare mine with. Functionally the biggest difference is with the II as I understand it the whole eyepiece moves to change magnification whereas the E1 has a focus ring like most other scopes. If you want to use flip covers, that may matter.
 
BigBL87 said:
I think the optics are supposedly slightly improved on the E1? Only had an E1, so dont have anything to compare mine with. Functionally the biggest difference is with the II as I understand it the whole eyepiece moves to change magnification whereas the E1 has a focus ring like most other scopes. If you want to use flip covers, that may matter.
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I had an e1 and a couple ff2s at the same time. I'm not sure i could have told a difference, both were quite good. I honestly don't think the glass quality is any better on the e1s, but the turrets sure are. The power rings nice, but the ff2s eye piece dosent move far enough to really make flip up caps a problem.

Really I'd simply buy whichever I found cheaper in the lower range I wanted.
 
According to their website Burris still makes the Fullfield II. Have owned an E1 and II, couldn’t tell a difference in the glass.

I’ve always been underwhelmed by the Crossfire, give me a Fullfield.

My highest power scope is 10x. You can shoot a long way with 9x-10x. In addition you can get by with lower magnification with good glass.
 
Well at this point I can't make a decision and pull the trigger on purchasing either one. Did this same thing when trying to decide between a new Lee turret press or the new lee Pro4000 progressive press both had features I liked and both had certain advantages over the other.

Matter of fact I now question whether I should stick with what I have for the time being until I have a better idea of what I truly want or need over what I think I would like. Honestly at this point I cannot even judge what I have.
 
kmw1954 said:
From what I understand the Fullfield II and the Fullfield E1 are two separate scopes. Exactly what the difference is other than the reticle again I don't know.
Click to expand...

BigBL87 said:
I think the optics are supposedly slightly improved on the E1? Only had an E1, so dont have anything to compare mine with. Functionally the biggest difference is with the II as I understand it the whole eyepiece moves to change magnification whereas the E1 has a focus ring like most other scopes. If you want to use flip covers, that may matter.
Click to expand...

LoonWulf said:
I had an e1 and a couple ff2s at the same time. I'm not sure i could have told a difference, both were quite good. I honestly don't think the glass quality is any better on the e1s, but the turrets sure are. The power rings nice, but the ff2s eye piece dosent move far enough to really make flip up caps a problem.

Really I'd simply buy whichever I found cheaper in the lower range I wanted.
Click to expand...

I have three of the Fullfield II 4.5-14x42, and three of the Fullfield E1 4.5-14x42. I've compared them side-by-side, very carefully (using an optical resolution target and other target objects). I've compared them one to another, and also to several other scopes from Leupold, Sightron, Vortex, and Weaver. None of the others are better to my eye than these Burris scopes. All of the other scopes cost at least a couple hundred dollars more than you can currently get these Burris scopes for (you can currently buy the E1 in the $160 range, and the E1s they sent to me are Philippines built like my FF II). As far as a difference between the two Burris scopes... I decided that I couldn't detect a difference between the two optically. During the comparison there was a time or two when I was switching back and forth in certain lighting conditions or at certain settings that I kinda, sorta, thought that perhaps the E1 had ever so slight of an edge, but I couldn't say that with any certainty. I prefer side focus to A/O, so the FF E1 would get my vote for that reason. If you like A/O better, then get the FF II. Also as BigBL87 said, there's the difference in the focus ring and mag ring if that matters to you. And the E1 is a slightly more compact scope.

If 14x is enough magnification for you, and 50 yards is short enough focus distance, I would highly recommend buying one of these while the Philippine-built ones are available at blowout pricing.
 
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kmw1954 said:
I would sure like to know where you all are finding this E1 4.5-14X42 for only $160.00 Best I can find is $219.00
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They were going for about that not too long ago. I bought one for 150 something about a year ago......I was just looking and you can now get the 6.5-20s for about 220-250 now depending on how hard you look. My ffl buddy was supposed to order one for me, but he forgot, and now they are out of stock from his distributors.
 
LoonWulf said:
They were going for about that not too long ago. I bought one for 150 something about a year ago......I was just looking and you can now get the 6.5-20s for about 220-250 now depending on how hard you look. My ffl buddy was supposed to order one for me, but he forgot, and now they are out of stock from his distributors.
Click to expand...

There are a couple in the $150 range in eBay right now, but they're auctions. I got mine in the 160ish range via an eBay auction.
 
Another option not mentioned thus far would be the Athlon Talos line. 3-12 and 4-16 would seem to fit your desire for more magnification. Reticle options are decent they have standard duplex, mildot, and an illuminated BDC as options. I've heard nothing but good things but haven't used one personally though I DO have an Athlon Talos spotting scope that I've been very pleased with. @LoonWulf suggested Athlon awhile back when I was looking, tossing around the idea of getting one for my .243, but probably going to end up investing in a rangefinder or binos instead.
 
BigBL87 said:
Another option not mentioned thus far would be the Athlon Talos line. 3-12 and 4-16 would seem to fit your desire for more magnification. Reticle options are decent they have standard duplex, mildot, and an illuminated BDC as options. I've heard nothing but good things but haven't used one personally though I DO have an Athlon Talos spotting scope that I've been very pleased with. @LoonWulf suggested Athlon awhile back when I was looking, tossing around the idea of getting one for my .243, but probably going to end up investing in a rangefinder or binos instead.
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Thats a good recommendation, I actually forgot about them. Ive had both the Talos, and Neos, an been impressed with the quality for the cost. I still think the FF2/E1s are optically slightly superior, but the turrets on even the cheap Neos was better than the FF2s (not that they ff2 is bad for a set it and forget it, but its not as easy or as nice as many other options).

Actually if were delving into the 300+/- range, then the Athlong Argos HMRs would be options as well. I cant say enough good about them optically, and the turrets are way above anything else I've used in the price range.....I don't have enough time behind mine to really say how durable a scope it is, as I don't shoot my .300 that often. Im maybe 1-200 rounds into it, and only knocked it over once.......actually since my FFL buddy forgot to order my FF E1 6.5-20, I might buy another one of these for my .22....

Oh all the athlons focus down to something like 10-20yds, if that matters.
 
DaleD said:
$188.99close enough for you?
https://www.amazon.com/Burris-Optic...4KBXW44918Q&psc=1&refRID=MBFYJCDRX4KBXW44918Q
Click to expand...

I keep watching Amazon and they had a few from a vendor the other day at $185.00.. There are two different reticles available the MRAD Long (200344) Distance and BDC (200338), I prefer the BDC as it appears cleaner and less busy to my eye.

From all I have read this is one of the better scopes in at this price point. The Konus that is one the gun now sells for around the $100.00 range so I am assuming this would be a huge step up. I have also looked in the $300/$350.00 range again at the Burris, Vortex and Leupold offerings just not certain this gun is deserving of a higher end scope.
 
kmw1954 said:
I would sure like to know where you all are finding this E1 4.5-14X42 for only $160.00 Best I can find is $219.00
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There are a bunch of auctions running currently on GB.

I bought my first one on GB for $183 when they were selling a little higher than some of them have been lately. Then after testing it and seeing that it was as good as the FF II optically, I looked around and found an online seller offering them at $142 (!) and bought both of the ones he had in stock.

Here's a link to the recent completed auctions on GB. Several hundred sold ranging from $130-something to about $240.
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search/completed?Keywords=burris 4.5&PageSize=48&Sort=1&View=2&PageIndex=1&Timeframe=1

NOTE that there are two reticles available in this scope on GB. The excellent (IMO) Ballistic-Plex, and the Long Range MOA. I'm only interested in the Ballistic-Plex myself. The LRMOA is way too busy to suit me. YMMV.

EDIT: there is also a 3rd reticle available in this scope, the E1 Ballistic Plex (PN 200338), but I don't see any of those among the current low-priced auctions on GB.
 
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kmw1954 said:
... just not certain this gun is deserving of a higher end scope.
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I have a different view of why I like scopes with nice, clear optics that are pleasant to the eye to sight through. It's not about how much the gun is worth. It's about my shooting enjoyment. My eye can't tell if I'm shooting $100 Savage Rascal, or a $3,000 Anschutz. If the scope is unpleasant to sight through - dark, poor clarity and resolution, too-small of an exit pupil, or just not comfortable for the eye - I don't enjoy shooting with it. A rifle with a crappy scope that isn't pleasant to sight through will never get out of my safe. Fortunately, it doesn't take much money nowadays to buy a scope that is quite nice, optically.
 
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