Winchester 1897 trap black diamond

I'm no expert, but I believe the barrel would not hold up to steel shot.

The only reason I ever heard to coddle these old dears is so the recoil doesn’t break the stock Here is a link to using Blue Dot for bismuth.

http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/...ightdis=1+1/4&shellid=471&gtypeid=10&gauge=12

I endorse following published recipes. Just because you components does not necessarily mean the play well together.

autism_emu said:

I have a Winchester 1897 trap made in 1903 and would like to know if I could shoot geese and ducks with it. If so what are some safe 12 gauge loads with which I can shoot geese and various waterfowl?
-Thanks

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It is a Trap gun, and a somewhat rare one at that. Sell it to a Trap shooter, you can buy about 10 or more field Model Win. 97's that you can do anything except shoot steel through Full choke models. ( unless you heve the chokes opened up.)

Oldschool shooter said:

I'm no expert, but I believe the barrel would not hold up to steel shot.

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And you would be correct. Plus if it's a Full or Improved Modified (which almost all Diamond Traps were) it will blow the pattern out and cause loose and irregular patterns.

Find an old Ithaca NID or L. C. Smith for way less than that 97 Diamond Trap is worth, and have a good shotgun gunsmith open up the chokes to IM /Mod for shooting bismuth. I found a load for STS hulls, 39.5 gr. Blue Dot, but it's 1421 fps, and over 10,000 pressure. Were I loading for an 870, I wouldn't think twice about it, but that's more than I'd want to shoot out of a '97 made in '03.

The 97 Black Diamond is a grail gun for me so I agree with those who suggest selling it and buying something more usable with alternative shot metals. Just me, but I think it would be a shame to beat up this fine gun in a duck blind.

Hang on a sec. I posted a published recipe with a source. The next person said follow the recipe. Don’t cheat using the components you have because. You then wrote about wanting to use the components you have. Then another poster brought up how he felt 10,000 lbs of pressure might be too much. This refers back to a published recipe. SAAMI pressures haven’t changed since your 97 was made so it might be okay . Some people use low pressure loads, but You are asking about using components you have on a gun we can’t see. If you do some research, you might find a load using the components you have or a low pressure load for bismuth. I only use published recipes because powder manufacturers have spent their research dollars to produce safe recipes. If I have questions about my guns, I do not rely on internet strangers. I take it to a professional. Please be safe.

autism_emu said:

If pressure problems are a large issue then can I use Pyrodex, for example, 3 drams worth of it in order to stay within pressure guidelines? The gun is already beat up on the outside but the internals are fine so I really don't think it would make much a difference if I shot it in a duck blind. I really don't want to sell it because my grandfather passed recently and gave me his firearms, I would hate to sell it and would like to shoot geese and ducks with it as my grandfather did so many years ago.
-autism_emu

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Well then don't sell it, keep it and shoot Trap with it, with Trap loads. Your grandpa may not have had a choice, maybe he only owned the one shotgun, but his choice to take an (what would have been at the time) expensive Trap gun out in the blind was not a wise one. Why would you want to repeat his poor choice, made poorer but today's waterfowl ammunition requirements?

I understand why you want to do this. I took my Grandpa's H&R 16 ga. single shot out pheasant hunting, as it was his pheasant gun. But it was a beat-up old second hand gun back when he bought it in the late twenties, and more so when I got a pheasant with it 3 years ago. Had it been an H&H 16 ga., I would not have taken it out. Your gun is not an H&H either, but it's not a beat-up old economy model. Black Diamonds were Winchesters elite Trap and Skeet guns back then, the Model 21 wouldn't come out for another 28 years. Please reconsider your plans- I recommend restoring it and shooting Trap with it, it would be a shame to waste it on anything else.

Okay, so you already have your mind made up to do what you want. That’s cool.

as far as loads go, I’m not a reloader, but it seems to me you’ve asked for advice and input about safe loads and then changed the parameters of your question to get verification on whether loads you are coming up with (using your components and not what’s been suggested by others) are safe.

It’s your gun and you can (and should) do what you want with it. But it seems getting members to sign off on your load recipes using your components might be a bit of a stretch.

most here are suggesting additional research based on the components you have. I can’t imagine why that would not be a good idea.

Looking to buy a 1897 Winchester. How much are they usually? Not looking to buy one as old as 1903 though. Perhaps a newer one.

That gun was made to hunt ducks with. Hell, The Shootinest Gentleman used one. I have duck hunted all over, and used everything including a BSS, A Winchester 23, and a Winchester 21 (on trial), and none of them ever got in the least beat up. Somewhere along the line it became acceptable, or even "tuff guy" symbolic to drop guns in the bottom of the boat and what not.

cokehayes45 said:

Looking to buy a 1897 Winchester. How much are they usually? Not looking to buy one as old as 1903 though. Perhaps a newer one.

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They can found for anywhere between $250 and $8000.Marauder has a webpage dedicated to how to pick out a ‘97. There are things to watch so you buy a safe one. There is also an outfit that will take your ‘97 & refurbish it to be a trench gun

If you want to hunt ducks and geese a lot then get a modern steel-safe 3 1/2 gun.

If you want to go out a few times every season with it for the experience and connection to your grandfather then buy some bismuth loads and have fun. They are expensive but if you’re only shooting a box a year with the gun it isn’t much. That’s what the bismuth loads are meant for.

Just don’t shoot steel in it and you’re fine.

If it were mine I’d take it out to the dove field with a 1 1/4 oz of # 7 1/2.

Or pheasants with 1 1/4 of 5's.

Scribner said:

Marauder has a webpage dedicated to how to pick out a ‘97. There are things to watch so you buy a safe one. There is also an outfit that will take your ‘97 & refurbish it to be a trench gun

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can you send me a link to both of those websites?

Not really. Sorry. Marauder’s pages are here

https://marauder.homestead.com/cowboy.html

Some of his advice runs like this:

First: Make sure that the "FLAG" on the shell lifter is working correctly. It should rise before the shell does. If not, seek proper repairs.
Second: Be sure that the slide release is working correctly! The slide should NOT open if the firing sequence is not completed unless the slide release is activated. (many amateur gunsmiths defeat the slide release! BAD JUJU!!) The slide/bolt should remain locked in battery until the hammer drops, the safety mechanism perceives recoil, or the slide release is activated.
Third: Be sure that the hammer does NOT follow the bolt when the trigger is held. Just like the Marlin, slowly close the bolt with the trigger depressed to a point just short of closed battery. The hammer should remain cocked and the firing pin should be blocked anywhere short of "In Battery".
Fourth: Be sure that the firing pin retracts fully when the bolt is open.

i add there should still be adjustment left in the barrel, the magazine should not be out of round, and half cock should work ( because this is all the safety the gun has)