Kahr K9 - oldie but a goodie

Obturation said:

With no ammo , if you pull the trigger you can watch the slide rise up in the rear some.

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Yes, my CW45 does that... my P45 didn't.

Palladan44 said:

Obturation and Charlie98-
Are we talking about the CW series weapons with polymer frames that you dislike?
I dont own a CW or polymer frame Kahr, just the K9.

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Yes, but just the .45's... I feel the 9mm poly Kahrs are solid, and Kahr's best version of their poly C- or P-line.

TTv2 said:

now that the P7 has been out of production

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I still have a hankerin' for a P7. The last batch of retired police P7's hit the shelves about 15 years ago... I wish I would have bought one. They were still going for $600+... even back then.

Charlie98 said:

I still have a hankerin' for a P7. The last batch of retired police P7's hit the shelves about 15 years ago... I wish I would have bought one. They were still going for $600+... even back then.

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I wish I could have bought guns back then because knowing what I know now I probably would have grabbed a P7 too. Maybe not to keep forever, but long enough to enjoy and resell.

It's out of production guns like the P7 that I'm more focused on looking at what I feel are guns today that I would like to own or shoot that I know will go up in price and becoming more prohibitively expensive. I look at Ruger P89s and P90s and a year ago they were $350-ish and now they're pushing $500 and I do not think the prices for them will ever go back below 400 again. Panics seem to have a long term ripple effect on the market on top of inflation. Like, I remember a time when I could get a brick of .22 for under $20 and just before the pandemic the prices had been holding at $25.

$5 isn't a lot of money, but when you consider it's a 25% increase from what it was just a few years ago and shows no signs of going back. Like, I remember Memorial Day weekend 2003 and it was the first time I ever saw gas at $2 a gallon and I was outraged thinking that people were getting ripped off. When I started driving to go to college in 2011 I was paying over $4 a gallon.

So, the effect that has is when first timers start doing whatever, buying guns for example during a time where prices are high, they think it's normal. Over time things settle down, prices drop some, but they never go back to normal for the rest of us.

Sad to say, but get use to paying $60 for 1000 primers.

Armybrat said:

I understand the mag followers were redesigned, which improved their reliability.

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There was definitely a serious design flaw with the plastic ones.

I bought a K9 from a fellow member a while back and got a Crimson Trace grip for it. I do like the trigger. It reminds me of shooting my S&W Combat Masterpiece.

My PM40 works just fine. I like it. I've had to wear overalls lately and carry it in the chest pocket (with a pocket holster, of course).

Bought a Kahr P9 about 20 years ago, first striker fired hand gun I've ever owned, beautiful pistol, very accurate with a buttery smooth trigger.
Still own it but I haven't shot it in years, just decided striker fired semi's without a safety weren't my thing, back to my favorite 1911 platform.

I bought a K9 when they first came out after reading a glowing article in some forgotten gunrag. I was quite smitten by it and I still find it an impressive pistol.
To specify just how early my specimen is, it has the non-reinforced, ordnance carbon steel frame sporting an electroless nickel finish (from the factory).

I've put thousands of round through it and it's proven absolutely reliable. It's no longer my carry handgun, but I wouldn't feel under gunned if I were to carry it again.

Obturation said:

My biggest criticism of the design. Squishy weird trigger....I'm not a trigger snob but the triggers on the 2 I've owned were just plain bad.

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I guess you must have bought 'em sight unseen, or untried. The design is what it is. You have a criticism, valid from your perspective true, but the triggers are not bad, just not to your particular liking.

Obturation said:

The one I've still got gave up at about 200 rounds, it does still kind of work sometimes but the best I can explain it is that it just wore out. With no ammo , if you pull the trigger you can watch the slide rise up in the rear some. It's unreliable .

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I've owned four Kahr polymer framed pistols. One, sadly, was stolen, I have the others. I can't see one "giving up" after 200 rounds. I wonder if you can do a favor and explain what "gave up". The slide rising up is normal for Karh. The trigger bar does not interact with the striker. It interacts with a cam, which rotates. The cam has a surface to manipulate the striker, and another surface to manipulate the striker block (aka firing pin block) safety mechanism. They all ride up a little when empty. So does the Browning High Power. Its the way the design works.

Kahr sometimes has a problem with the polymer having "flashing" under the sideplate, and those bits can sometimes interfere with the way the trigger bar rides up and down. It can be a DIY fix, or Kahr will fix that, no sweat. I'd still like to hear what "gave up" after 200 rounds. Trigger bar functioning will usually show up within that amount of use, so I'm suspecting you've got that issue.

Palladan44 said:

Yes, there is also that last round in the mag glitch, where the last round can catch if the slide is softly charged. I guess the new followers addressed that issue. The issue was the original baseplates being a hard plastic, prone to cracking. Im sure theyve done something about this-sounds like an easy engineering fix to me

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I've heard of the lips of the plastic bases occasionally cracking, never had a problem with it myself. The last round glitch was a run that had a little too much protrusion on the slide stop.

And, they also had a 40S&W problem with the barrel ramps hitting the magazine... that was strange by the barrel, which moves backward under recoil, had an extra long ramp that would whack the magazine, or actually, the magazine follower, which would crack. The fix was to shorten the ramp, which the factory did for people, or could be a DIY. That portion of the ramp was basically cosmetic, was never in the feed path of ammo, being positioned too far downward. Trimmed by about a nickel's thickness fixed the problem.

They had some plastic magazine releases that let loose. Those were replaced back to metal. That's about all the issues I can think of, besides that hanging chad "flashing" issue which still occasionally crops up. You get that little hangnail of plastic between the parts and its too much friction for the bent wire spring to overcome. The trigger bar hangs up, and that's that. After those issues, all the rest is just the weird one off parts breakage.

Project355 said:

I guess you must have bought 'em sight unseen, or untried. The design is what it is. You have a criticism, valid from your perspective true, but the triggers are not bad, just not to your particular liking.

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I knew how the trigger was, figured I would get used to it, never happened for me.

Well that explains the first one! Some people just don't cozy up to some guns. I've been that way. Love my Governor, never really liked the Judge. Weird. I like the long, silky smooth trigger for its weight of pull (not terribly light) and length of pull, which makes pocket carry safer. Very unlikely to have that trigger move all the way backward by accident. Same thing on the oft poo-poo'd SCCY CPX-2. Mine has about 300 rounds, not hiccup #1 yet. Its long pull makes it better for pocket carry. Kahr has been good for me. I wanted a Sig P250 in 45acp, ultra compact. They took forever getting that to market, so I got the Kahr instead, mostly because I went in looking for a Sig, and the shop had a Kahr. That trigger does get some getting used to, and my first shots were really all over the place. For me - I had to quit thinking about it as a really terrible single action and think more of a nice steady pull all the way through. No staging, to anticipating the release.

I bought a K9 when my girlfriend started shooting with me and was ready for a centerfire. I really like it and carried it quite a bit until she got a carry permit. I have other guns that are lighter with better capacity and recoil is no problem for me so it wouldn't be my first choice but I don't feel like anything is lacking with it by any means. They're great guns.

Charlie98 said:

Describe 'better.' Personally, the majority of my poly Kahrs have been 100% I don't see how the additional weight of the K would contribute to it being 'better' than a CW, for example, other than it being a very good pistol.

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The poly kahrs were redesigned with economy in mind and some of the design changes were sadly lacking in quality. Take for instance the magazine release spring...completely different setup in the poly kahrs and are of much cheaper and problematic design, hence the not insignificant or rare problems with kahrs dropping magazines under recoil...ask me how I know.
I had a pm9, a pm40, and a cw40. All went down the road after I had multiple problems with each. I swore off Kahrs for good until I found a K9, which is a completely different animal and a much much better gun.

silicosys4 said:

The poly kahrs were redesigned with economy in mind and some of the design changes were sadly lacking in quality. Take for instance the magazine release spring...completely different setup in the poly kahrs and are of much cheaper and problematic design, hence the not insignificant or rare problems with kahrs dropping magazines under recoil...ask me how I know.
I had a pm9, a pm40, and a cw40. All went down the road after I had multiple problems with each. I swore off Kahrs for good until I found a K9, which is a completely different animal and a much much better gun.

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They were designed with lightweight in mind. The issue is not one of quality but one of compatibility with certain shooters. Other than the failed, early plastic magazine releases all of the metal ones have been good. But some shooters just don't seem to get along with that magazine release.

Project355 said:

They were designed with lightweight in mind. The issue is not one of quality but one of compatibility with certain shooters. Other than the failed, early plastic magazine releases all of the metal ones have been good. But some shooters just don't seem to get along with that magazine release.

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I would refer to the design of the mag release springs. The poly Kahrs use a flat spring with one end molded into the grip frame and the other pressing against the magazine release. The steel Kahrs use a more conventional and reliable system of what I assume is a replaceable coil spring. The steel frame models use a tried and true design and the poly frame design use a highly cheapened method that precludes any easy maintenance that makes the frames practically disposable if the magazine release spring fails or needs replacement.

The problem with magazines dropping under recoil is not operator error, it is a well known, common, and well documented problem that requires a new magazine release to fix. Things like that, the problems with cracking magazine followers, and other issues make the poly guns too problematic and prone to malfunctions for me to consider them suitable for its intended role as a self defense weapon

Your statement about the mag catch spring in polymer Kahrs is in error. It is a removable part and can be replaced easily enough.

https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/pistol-parts/kahr-018cm40-magazine-catch-spring-018p45.asp

Palladan44 said:

Funny you mention this, my ex gf, AND the ex before that both could not rack the slide on the K9. The compact Kahr 9s (and probably others) have pretty firm springs. Kind of like pulling back a 55 lb bow.....not everybody can do it.

Now my current significant other.....wont even touch a gun, so no issue.

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That was/is a challenge. We had to work on technique but she can load it and she shoots it better than most centerfires she has tried. Its small enough to fit most peoples hands ok, heavy enough to be easy to shoot, but it does have its drawbacks. Still searching for the perfect gun

unclenunzie said:

Your statement about the mag catch spring in polymer Kahrs is in error. It is a removable part and can be replaced easily enough.

https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/pistol-parts/kahr-018cm40-magazine-catch-spring-018p45.asp

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It seems I was mistaken about the spring being replaceable but I still feel the design of the spring is rudimentary at best, and obviously still has a lot of issues their steel frame guns don't

Maybe you should apply for a job at Kahr!

The problem isn't the design or the spring, but one of shooter incompatibility. Some shooters have resorted to grinding their magazine release to make it less prone to being hit. I grind my slide stops to be thinner and less prone to being hit. That's just me. I also around all the edges on things, not a full melt but just round off all the corners.
I'll take a few snapshots of that later on.

I recently found this forum and decided that it was time for me to join so as to add some historical facts to the discussion.

In response to usp9 about the broken trigger bar, the original Kahr K9 trigger bar was revised due to factory solicited input to their OEM metal stamping supplier. This step was or is typical due to the supplier’s particular industry expertise. In my prior and 20+ year managing position for that metal stamping OEM supplier of components and assemblies to Kahr, plus other gun companies, I was directly involved with a number of OEM issues.

The originally produced Kahr trigger bars were CNC machined from a block of steel and I designed, and my employer produced, the replacement metal stamped (offset forms with horizontal and vertical tails) trigger bar assembly containing a brazed button and then fully heat treated. Feedback to me was that the replacement was an improvement over the original.

Similar Kahr OEM supplier improvements of my design and my employer’s mfg. we’re of the the double recoil assembly’s tube with formed flange (versus original CNC machined tubes and flanges) and some plastic magazine follower’s metal insert designs and mfg. for the slide stop engagement.

Please note that any OEM supplier suggested improvements were gun company tested and approved before the supplier’s ramping up component or assembly production.

Thanks for posting, retired metalsmith. We very much appreciate getting first hand information on the history of our guns.

retired metalsmith said:

I recently found this forum and decided that it was time for me to join so as to add some historical facts to the discussion.

In response to usp9 about the broken trigger bar, the original Kahr K9 trigger bar was revised due to factory solicited input to their OEM metal stamping supplier. This step was or is typical due to the supplier’s particular industry expertise. In my prior and 20+ year managing position for that metal stamping OEM supplier of components and assemblies to Kahr, plus other gun companies, I was directly involved with a number of OEM issues.

The originally produced Kahr trigger bars were CNC machined from a block of steel and I designed, and my employer produced, the replacement metal stamped (offset forms with horizontal and vertical tails) trigger bar assembly containing a brazed button and then fully heat treated. Feedback to me was that the replacement was an improvement over the original.

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Just to be clear...
Whether pertinent or not I'm not sure but the K9 trigger bar that broke, (the small bend on the rear that moves against the cam sheared off), was on a 2008 all stainless model that had been factory upgraded to the elite trigger. The round count was what I would consider fairly low three or four thousand. This occurred a few years ago. Kahr did repair it at no charge.

My first Kahr, the older early carbon steel K9 was sold after owning it only a year or so because I didn't like the trigger. Functioned fine but never made me happy. I did go on to purchase a total of nine Kahrs. Some really good guns but some not.

The Kahr has my favorite DAO trigger. Easy to learn quickly. Always wanted a K9 but haven’t been willing to spend that much wonga on a 7-shot 9mm when there are so many lighter, less expensive, options out there.