LCP 2 has 100000x better trigger than original LCP. Much better gun..380s in blow back guns have pretty snappy recoil , an LCP really wallops you , enough to make a difference in repeat accurate shots for me, I recently gave my LCP to a son to go with his S&W .40 he is trained on for a back up. I carry (again ) my Walther PPS .40 which is almost twice as heavy and only a little bigger than the LCP , it still fits in a Mika Pocket holster with the shorter 6 round magazine. The PPS .40 kicks pretty good too, but less for me than an LCP with hotter ammo and I shoot much more accurately with it. I do still have a few .380s and would carry them if needed. My French Model C MAB .380 has grip and lever safeties so I feel safe with its single action stricker fir and at 17 .oz of all steel is a better shooter for me than the LCP. Same with the Walther PP .380 , which is about the same size as my original Remington Model 51 which I also feel safe with in condition one and is very soft shooting. The Mauser HSC Super holds 13 rounds and has a big grip and is not a pocket pistol but has a little longer barrel and shoots very accurately and fast and can be safely carried fully loaded. I had a Colt Mustang Pocket Lite and although it was a little ammo picky it was light shooting and only weighed a few onces more than the LCP but about half the recoil. But the cocked and locked action with no grip safety was not a pocket pistol either. Another son claimed it years back.
In .380 the Remington Short barrel defense load works well in the longer barrel guns, as does the Federal Micro defense load and the XTP and the Gold dot. The old Geco silver FMJ loads were the hottest and best functoion in any thing I tried them in. In the older guns my now meager supply of them is in those . In the other I really like the 102 grain Remington short barrel defensive load. It has good penetration , a good feeding profile in most anything and they seem to go close to 10" or so in gel tests when they expand to 1/2" and more when they don't.(mostly in the shorter barreled guns like the LCP) . .380 is very similar to .38 S&W ammo in short barrel guns, a known killer for 150 years. .
.380 FMJ For Self-Defense?
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LCP 2 has 100000x better trigger than original LCP. Much better gun.
Gordon
Member
Also bigger , I like the original better with some added upgrades, but man do they recoil. I also like the first design Walther PPS M1 better than the slightly bigger M2 version. For me those kinda guns are all about concealment. If I want an ergonomic comfortable pistol it will be worn on a belt holster .
WisBorn
Contributing Member
As this thread has shifted from ammo to pistols. I have the LCP2 and like it real well.
The Glock 42 is fun to shoot
I would like to find/buy a Keltec 32 for a little little gun. I have been finding 32 auto ammo
The Glock 42 is fun to shoot
I would like to find/buy a Keltec 32 for a little little gun. I have been finding 32 auto ammo
Grizzly2
Member
I'm happy with the LCP Custom. Better sights, slightly improved trigger and not that light that an unexpected twitch when drawn might set it off too easily. Tunnel vision really lessens our finer motor skills and what we think we are able to do may not be the case under extreme tension. Hickock found it way easier to hit accurately than with the original LCP. I thought the trigger on the LCP2 was a bit too light for my taste in a carry gun. I'll still carry rounds with the Hornady XTP bullet though I may have to look into flat points and the Leighih rounds.
American Finn
Member
I will chime in on this; let me preface my response in saying I am NOT, nor have been, law enforcement/military and have never used a firearm in anger on anyone (came close once; another story for another time). Anyways, I worked at a Detroit ER Trauma Center; I got to see the people being brought in by EMS; I will never forget the first person I saw who was killed in a shooting. IIRC, he broke into a home and was in the act of stealing when the home owner used a .22LR rifle on him; it was summer and the bullets penetrated his clothing easily; the bullets entered the chest cavity and literally ricocheted tearing up his internal organs without exiting the body; he was small in stature. Another incident I remember was a very heavy set man (he was about 5' 8" IIRC and 450 pounds) that was shot at with a .22LR that just bounced off his body in summer (he was brought in by EMS because he was hit by a car running away from the melee). I recall another man that was involved in a dispute (IIRC it was drug related) and someone took their time in the act; was told it was a 9mm and the bullets fully passed through him with winter clothing; bullet wounds to the chest, extremities and groin; he was about 6 foot ish; medium build (I remember watching the EMTs count the holes on the body too; needed it for the medical report). I saw someone survive a full 12 gauge blast to the chest; pure absolute luck on his part; the buckshot missed the internal organs as he was shot from over 20 yards away (that's what the Detroit Police said). I have seen people blowing .6 and higher for ETOH and live; people in car accidents that fractured the majority of bones in their bodies and survived.
The point I am trying to make is the human body is able to take an impressive amount of damage and keep going; someone who is on drugs, intoxicated, etc. is going to have a different nervous system response to trauma than a normal person. There are other people who's adrenaline gives them an edge in a fight and they aren't easily taken down. We have many examples of this in history from the Philippine Insurrection (the Moro tribesman and the .38 Long Colt's inability to down the charging warriors), Japanese soldiers in WW2 surviving multiple hits and still charging, etc.
I feel that you should carry what makes you the most comfortable; if a .380 Glock 42 is what you have and you are proficient with it by all means, go ahead (I have carried this handgun; never felt unarmed carrying it; if all you have is FMJ available; go with it). If you feel more power is important than that is your choice. I think, no matter what you carry, the most important aspects are you practice, get good training, carry reloads, and have confidence in your weapon and abilities. The vast majority of people who are criminals don't want to be shot with anything; I don't have any easy answers for dealing with rioters or drug crazed gang members.
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doubleh
Member
You just added depth to what I was pointing out, that nothing takes the place of human flesh and even that is VERY inconsistant in what happens when shot or even damaged in other mishaps.
Have you considered a Glock 42? With reliable Glock factory +2 mag extension, you can make it a super concealable 8+1 single-stack .380
WheelGunMan
Member
I have a Bersa Firestorm .380 7+1 that I shoot exceptionally well. I never feel undergunned when I carry it. To paraphrase what others have said..it's all about shop placement. Carry what you can shoot well and practice often.
WisBorn
Contributing Member
What ammo do you carry?
Aikibiker
Member
I worked at a Trauma Center as security. We had one case of a "gentleman" brought into our ED by ambulance. He had been shot by a person unknown with a pistol, though he swore up and down he had not been shot. The entry hole was approximately three inches below his left nipple and the projectile was resting just underneath the skin of his back, it appeared the projectile had passed straight through. I was involved initially because security would secure the ambulance bay for trauma alert patients and escort the patient into the trauma room in case they became combative.
The local police department had found a .380 acp shell casing on the scene of the shooting, but no shooter or gun was present. I was asked by one of the doctors to take a look at the x-ray to see if I could identify the round in question after I mentioned that .380 acp FMJ very often had a flat meplat on the nose of the projectile. The x-ray did indeed show what appeared to be a .380 acp bullet in the patient, but the patient refused to have it removed, refused all further medical care, and decided to leave the hospital AMA (against medical advice) within about 30 minutes of his arrival. On the way out he was verbally abusive towards the staff, threw a box of masks at a male nurse and attempted to attack him before I physically restrained the patient and escorted him out the door. I do not know the outcome for that patient, but I never heard of him being found dead later, so I assume he survived with no medical treatment for a gunshot wound to the high center chest besides a dressing taped in place and a couple x-rays.
After that incident I have a very low faith in .380 acp to disable an attacker, though I figure it is better then foul language.
The local police department had found a .380 acp shell casing on the scene of the shooting, but no shooter or gun was present. I was asked by one of the doctors to take a look at the x-ray to see if I could identify the round in question after I mentioned that .380 acp FMJ very often had a flat meplat on the nose of the projectile. The x-ray did indeed show what appeared to be a .380 acp bullet in the patient, but the patient refused to have it removed, refused all further medical care, and decided to leave the hospital AMA (against medical advice) within about 30 minutes of his arrival. On the way out he was verbally abusive towards the staff, threw a box of masks at a male nurse and attempted to attack him before I physically restrained the patient and escorted him out the door. I do not know the outcome for that patient, but I never heard of him being found dead later, so I assume he survived with no medical treatment for a gunshot wound to the high center chest besides a dressing taped in place and a couple x-rays.
After that incident I have a very low faith in .380 acp to disable an attacker, though I figure it is better then foul language.
WheelGunMan
Member
I prefer ARX ammo...but at this juncture, whatever is available.
WheelGunMan
Member
The fact that he was brought into the ED by ambulance speaks volumes. Sounds like he was incapacitated enough that he had to be transported. The whole intent of a defensive weapon, in my opinion, is to thwart or STOP a threat..not to kill the attacker. You shoot until the threat is abated then stop shooting.
Have not read through the replies, just answering OP.
I carry an LCP when nothing else will do. Usually 1-2 times per year. I am responsible for every round I fire, and will take any advantage for defending myself successfully while avoiding harming others. Therefore I carry ammo with sufficient penetration but that is less likely to overpenetrate than FMJ.
I carry an LCP when nothing else will do. Usually 1-2 times per year. I am responsible for every round I fire, and will take any advantage for defending myself successfully while avoiding harming others. Therefore I carry ammo with sufficient penetration but that is less likely to overpenetrate than FMJ.
Aikibiker
Member
He didn't seem all that incapacitated to me when he came in. He was sitting up on the stretcher talking trash to the paramedic. I got the impression that he came to the hospital because "that is what you are supposed to do" when you get shot. According to the cops he also ran away from the shooting scene and they picked him up a block or so away. Seems like the only reason he stop doing whatever he was doing that got him shot, was because he chose to run and not attack. You can't count on that reaction with every one.
the fact the bullet went straight through a path and made it to the other side that would be fatal in most cases proves the bullet did the job. A 9mm would have exited but do little to no extra damage.
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-...grenade-after-it-bounces-off-his-leg-2012-10\
nothing works all the time.
Hokkmike
Member
I have heard the mantra HP in the summer (light clothing) and FMJ in the winter. The 42 is my choice also.
American Finn
Member
I've seen several patients brought in priority 1 and leave AMA. I remember one, just like your shooting victim, who was stabbed in the lower abdomen. Overtly hostile, spitting, swearing, resisting treatment. Finally, the trauma doc bellowed out "TRAUMA TEAM DISBAND!", turned towards me, security, the residents and said "I'm sick of this s--- and not in the mood today". Many times EMS brought them in because, basically in Michigan, it's the law. If they EMTs believe that you are not of sound mind and require medical attention they must bring you to the ER; if EMS were to not transport a patient and that person died it's a major lawsuit. The doc determined he was of sound mind, had him sign the papers, and security showed him the door. Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic.
I do believe shot placement is everything and should have stated this in earlier posts; as a CPL holder one must practice and use quality ammunition. I do believe a .380 is the minimum I would consider for self defense. I have carried the G42 and never felt unarmed carrying it.
Obturation
Member
Tcp is the hardest gun for me to shoot. It's crazy, I can only manage an 8" group at about 10 feet, yeah that bad. My buddy who owns the gun can make good groups and his hands are even bigger and more beat up than mine. Its just one of those pistols that hates me, I'm determined to figure out how to shoot that little booger!
Well, I am familiar with a situation where a victim was shot squarely in the chest with a 9mm from a few feet away. The victim remained conscious, alert and conversant the entire time and had to be talked into going to the hospital to have the wound examined. The bullet had struck nothing but flesh; no bones or organs were struck. He was treated and released.
I would never discount a 9mm on that basis alone.
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I have and carry a G42 daily. I am not aware of any factory +1 or +2 magazine extensions from Glock. I have Pearce +1 on all my G42 magazines. Please point me to where I can find these. I do know there are several manufacturers that make plus extensions for those magazines, but not Glock.
WheelGunMan
Member
If he ran away from the scene of the crime because he was shot then the defensive weapon did its job..it thwarted an attack. You can't ask much more from a defensive weapon.
I could shoot my TCP better than Ruger LCP and Beretta Pico. I thought it had the best trigger of them all. Long but very smooth.
Obturation
Member
I can't recommend a mag base plate extender. It changes things and they've proven to cause me trouble.
If you aren't changing the spring too then the tension is instantly less and if the spring is already tired there's not much push left when you get near the bottom.
I have used a +2 Pearce extension on my g20 for a couple years, I dropped a loaded mag on the floor and all the rounds jammed the spring at the bottom. That was not repairable on site and had to be wrestled apart. I was using another brand (don't remember what- same thing though) on my g30 and when I got to the last couple rds in the mag they just would not get up there with enough speed/power.
I've sworn off doo dads and whizbangs for guns that I need to trust.
Of the failures I've experienced with modern striker pistols , every single time except for once , it was caused by some crap I bought and put on there. Not cheap crap either, the "good" crap.
I leave my carry guns alone, they need to work and changing one thing , changes things you may not realize.
Everyone's free to make their own choices but for my peace of mind I keep my carry guns stock except for sights.
If you aren't changing the spring too then the tension is instantly less and if the spring is already tired there's not much push left when you get near the bottom.
I have used a +2 Pearce extension on my g20 for a couple years, I dropped a loaded mag on the floor and all the rounds jammed the spring at the bottom. That was not repairable on site and had to be wrestled apart. I was using another brand (don't remember what- same thing though) on my g30 and when I got to the last couple rds in the mag they just would not get up there with enough speed/power.
I've sworn off doo dads and whizbangs for guns that I need to trust.
Of the failures I've experienced with modern striker pistols , every single time except for once , it was caused by some crap I bought and put on there. Not cheap crap either, the "good" crap.
I leave my carry guns alone, they need to work and changing one thing , changes things you may not realize.
Everyone's free to make their own choices but for my peace of mind I keep my carry guns stock except for sights.
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