"Carry" Caliber Wars???

What caliber I carry more than others ...
Not what I think is the best
But what the handguns I carry most are chambered in...
38spl
40 S&W

.45 Shield is a great choice. I IWB a Sig P365. I like the 10+1 and always carry one of the commercial JHP defense loads.

There is SOOOO many variable here. Some can't or will not, shoot some of the smaller pistols in larger caliber. While almost anyone could learn to use these MANY just will not do so. For them the large caliber that they will not practice with and cannot shoot well does little good. Chances are they will go their life and never need to shoot it at anyone but, if they do and they only miss the larger caliber does nothing. Miss is still a miss.
Then there is the what will they actually carry. Almost every person I have ever known who loves larger caliber guns will at times carry nothing. Always a good excuse why not but, truth is they just at times do not want to bother. Great as long as that is not the one time they needed the gun. Now some, rare, people will and great on them. Most just will not. So if they will carry something else, even a .22, and they need a gun? The gun they have beats the better one at home every time. Old line about 1st rule of wining a gun fight.

Pragmatism and objectivity oftentimes play little in the cartridge and gun combo. Often because this is a highly subjective choice.

Also, tastes, preferences, physical shape and size, as well as past experiences all play a part in each individual’s choice. None of these reasons any of us would fully understand unless we were that individual.

What am I actually willing to carry? Something that's reliable, convenient, and at least 380acp; if I do my job of shooting accurately, my 380acp or 32 magnum handguns will do their job. My favorite handguns in general are long-barreled S&W N frames, but I'm just not going to go to the grocery store with one strapped onto me. I live in a mostly hot climate, and I'm not going to do it. Given the choice of a couple of good handguns equally easy to carry, I will take the larger caliber (or higher capacity), but my 6" Model 28 is definitely going to stay at home.

Hot weather (most of the year): LCR 38 special in cargo shorts pocket

Cooler weather: LCRII 380acp in breast pocket of flannel shirt

Lately: Charter Arms Bulldog 44 special in front pocket of bib overalls (have to wear them due to surgery)

Yeah, I do prefer having the 44 in my pocket. But I'm not going to wear bib overalls or a flannel shirt when it's 110 degrees outside. I'm just not going to do it, and there's no use pretending.

I'm carrying a 45 acp lightweight commander 1911 everywhere, easily concealed under a loose untucked shirt.

Philosophy:
The pistol one would carry when in an area of greater anticipated threat, one should strive to carry that everywhere.
Concealable pistol was implied a Shield / Glock 19 / 1911 is concealable, a SBR or shotgun is not.
That philosophy allows for carrying something "better than nothing" (32/380/38) if limited by work attire.
Carrying a 32/380/38 in a "good area" by choice but a 9mm/45 whatever elsewhere (anticipated greater threat area) makes little sense.
Nowhere would I prefer to defend myself with a 32/380/38 rather than a 9mm/40/45 and I carry accordingly, consistently.

ETA: "caliber war" is a term intended to inhibit caliber discussion and those carrying larger calibers are probably not the ones that say it.

I just got an ankle hoslter so I could practice ankle carrying a CZ-70, .32 ACP. I can't stand IWB, just will never like it. I was thinking of getting an NAA mini revolver to just stuck in my pocket, but figured I'd try ankle carry cause a cheap holster is less than getting another firearm. I sometimes carry a 4" .38 Special Revolver, or a full size Beretta 92, 9mm - I've fired a few times a 1911 in .45 ACP -- there are a few reasons for me I would not move to this cartridge for carry. In a full size firearm, I kind of want more than 8 rounds, and I don't really shoot .45 ACP very well. So, even in a full size pistol, I'd then be carrying a cartrdige I am not really good at shooting, and would have not many rounds to miss with.

I'm sure there are other combinations that might make more sense, but I already have the CZ, practiced with it a lot, fixed it several times, and shoot it well. The holster on my ankle has slots for 2 additional magazines, and when I do that math on where I live and go - 24 rounds of .32 ACP seems like it would be far better than the Beretta left in my auto - say if I'm in a store or public place and something goes down.

I also have a certain ironic appreciation for being part of the free world, and carrying a firearm from behind the iron curtain, that was once used to suppress huge swaths of people under communist rule. and .32 ACP was John Brownings first pistol cartridge.

So I'm wondering why folks would carry anything less than .40, as easily-concealable 40s and 45s are more than abundant and affordable out there.

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Well, for ME, because actually shooting these you mentioned hurts my hand, I have choosen others..after actually shooting 40, 45 and even 10mm. To confirm reliability and comfort and confidence in any concealed handgun, well, ya gotta shoot it, a lot. Yes, I am a small percentage of those who may be 'recoil sensitive(bunged up RH wrist and still dislocated RH thumb(thanks USN Docs)), so I buy, carry and shoot(a lot) HGs that don't hurt my hand.
Glock 48 and Glock 42..CCW HGs.

Redcoat3340 said:

So I'm wondering why folks would carry anything less than .40, as easily-concealable 40s and 45s are more than abundant and affordable out there.

Wadda ya think?

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While I own and on occasion have carried some of the larger caliber handguns it's been decades since I even considered one as a carry option. I tend to always have a 25acp in my pocket and as a primary carry handgun most often it is either a 32acp or 32S&W caliber. My reasons are also pretty simple; I own more 32 caliber handguns than any other caliber, find 32 caliber very easy to control, very reliable and very repeatable even under situations of relatively high stress. If I will be using a handgun in self defense it will almost certainly be a very close quarters; I have no intension of ever trying to make a self defense shot even out at 25 yards much less at anything longer or in a situation with people that might cross my lane of fire.

I will never be making traffic stops or serving warrants or responding to a domestic disturbance call or making an arrest. Those are simply NMP. For me the three most important points are just like real estate; location, Location, LOCATION. For self defense the 32 was the easiest way for me to place several controlled shots in a relatively small pattern at pretty much Bad Breath Distance. The lower recoil of the 32 caliber family work well for me.

Redcoat3340 said:

So I had my .45 acp Shield and a Beretta model 85F (.380) on my desk at the same time.

I wasn't quite amazed the Shield was a bit thinner and way lighter, but it was probably the first time I wondered why I'd ever consider carrying the Beretta for self-defense? I really like shooting the .380 (and a CZ83) but, like carrying it; I mean .45 vs .380? Not much of a contest.

The Shield recoil is more than manageable, even for my aging hands and I can hit what I'm aiming at at least out to 15 yards; so why ever consider a smaller caliber?

Now I can carry the Shield in my jeans pocket (and my other IWB carry guns are a Beretta PX4c in .40, a Smith 4513TSW, and a S&W 4013TSW), but, as is apparent, I've sort of "retired" my 9mm carry pieces (CS9, PX4c) as well as my J-frame .38 and I never really liked carrying a safety-less striker-fired gun ala a Sig 320. And I don't own any Glocks after giving 3 different ones a try out.

So I'm wondering why folks would carry anything less than .40, as easily-concealable 40s and 45s are more than abundant and affordable out there.

Wadda ya think?

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For comparison to what you have, I have a Glock 36 (6+1 of .45 ACP), a Beretta 81BB (12+1 of .32 ACP), and a CZ75D PCR (14+1 of 9mm). I've fired compact .40 caliber pistols made by S&W and Springfield Armory, but I simply didn't go down the path of the .40. Can't remember exactly why.

The Beretta 81BB is the same length and height as your Beretta 85F, but the widths are probably different. I got the 81BB because it was inexpensive, I already had .32 ACP ammo, and I thought it might make a decent gun for the day I can't handle recoil in a few more decades.

The 81BB and the G36 are virtually the same size except the Beretta is substantially wider. The CZ is is just a tad bigger than either in length and height, but thinner than the 81BB at the grips. That Beretta is simply fat at the grips.

None of the above will fit into one of my pockets, at least where I could expect to draw them quickly.

With all three fully loaded, the 81BB and the G36 weigh the same at 28 oz. on my kitchen scale. The CZ is the heaviest at 33 oz.

The G36 is the easiest to carry by weight and size, but it only has 7 shots on tap. I really consider it a semi-auto version of a revolver, if a revolver were to be striker fired.

The CZ is actually my favored pistol of the three for several reasons. It is easier to shoot well and it has the most capacity with a powerful enough self defense cartridge in a similarly sized package. It's also a DA/SA pistol with a decocker and the locked breech action of the CZ is actually easier to rack the slide than the blowback Beretta.

Be sure, the Beretta I have is merely a novelty surplus gun for me at this point and I'd feel the same way towards an 85F in .380 ACP considering the size and blowback action.

Bottom line for me is .380 ACP (or .32 ACP) is only my choice for a true pocket gun. But move up to compact size and 15 rounds of 9mm is what I prefer to 7 rounds of .45 ACP. (Or, 11 rounds to 7 if you compare sub-compacts.)

Better pistol options in 9mm (used to carry .40). With the p365 I get the same manual of arms for all my carry needs:

Me? I go with what I got.

I carry from a half-dozen different gats as circumstances dictate.

One thing I most certainly do not do is continually chase optimum.... well, optimum anything in a purchase.

Caliber factors almost never into the equation for me. I've carried .32 ACP and even .25 in Africa and .44 in Los Angeles because that was what was at hand rather than struggling over ballistic hypotheticals.

So; "... why folks would carry anything less than..." Because, optimum hypotheticals are just that. Too, for a great many folk - economics are often a factor.

Besides as far as .40 is concerned, all I can say is.... Well, we'll leave that go for another conversation.


Todd.

I have an expectation that a carry gun meets a certain metric for shooting, combining speed on rapid fire strings, accuracy and overall comfort shooting (I won't carry something I dont shoot a lot).

I find 9mm is easier to shoot accurately at speed, and put more stock in more (potential) hits over bigger bullets.

If I find a .40 that shoots as well as I expect a carry gun to, I'll carry it. Haven't yet, but always remain open to the option.

My back doesn't like full steel guns anymore and I don't like how slow lightweight .45s are in my hands, and how much harder I have to focus to keep accuracy up (which I may not have in dynamic, chaotic CCW situation).

Oh goody, another caliber discussion!

It'll go something like this:

Person #1: I choose ____ caliber because that's what the local police carry.
Person #2: I used to carry that caliber but the FBI switched to ____.
Person #3: The odds of ever needing your carry weapon is so small anything more than ____ caliber is not worth it.
Person #4: If you switch to _____ caliber you can practice more because ammo is cheaper.
Person #5: You don't want just one caliber that you carry because when pandemic hits you need options.
Person #6: When pandemic happens, all calibers are gone, so what's the point?
Person #7: I choose _____ caliber because that's what Colonel Cooper carried.
Person #8: I choose _____ caliber because I don't want to be limited in number of rounds with multiple assailants.
Person #9: I don't even carry any more because I can't decide which caliber to carry.
Person #10: Have you seen the new bullets for _____ caliber they are now just as good as ______ caliber?
Person #11: Why carry two magazines with _____ caliber when I can carry more in the gun itself with _____ caliber?
Person #12: Why have to depend on shooting the assailant multiple times when _____ caliber will stop the thread faster?
Person #13: You're still carrying _____ caliber, why? It has less capacity than _____ and isn't as effective as _____.
Person #14: I choose _____ caliber and trust me because I trained John Wick how to shoot.
Person #15: Just watch this security footage, that's why I carry _____ caliber.
Person #16: Watch this body camera footage, that's why I don't carry _____ caliber.

Your argument means you believe that 40-45 are Superior to 9mm and 38special. They are really not.

There's functionally no difference between the service calibers which are 38spec, 9mm, 40 and 45. They all produce about 400ft lbs or so and have very similar other metrics.

So it basically comes down to what platform you want and what it's chambered in

BreechFace said:

Person #12: Why have to depend on shooting the assailant multiple times when _____ caliber will stop the thread faster?

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Don't know if that was on purpose or by mistake, but that is excellent.

Redcoat3340 said:

So I had my .45 acp Shield and a Beretta model 85F (.380) on my desk at the same time.

I wasn't quite amazed the Shield was a bit thinner and way lighter, but it was probably the first time I wondered why I'd ever consider carrying the Beretta for self-defense? I really like shooting the .380 (and a CZ83) but, like carrying it; I mean .45 vs .380? Not much of a contest.

The Shield recoil is more than manageable, even for my aging hands and I can hit what I'm aiming at at least out to 15 yards; so why ever consider a smaller caliber?

Now I can carry the Shield in my jeans pocket (and my other IWB carry guns are a Beretta PX4c in .40, a Smith 4513TSW, and a S&W 4013TSW), but, as is apparent, I've sort of "retired" my 9mm carry pieces (CS9, PX4c) as well as my J-frame .38 and I never really liked carrying a safety-less striker-fired gun ala a Sig 320. And I don't own any Glocks after giving 3 different ones a try out.

So I'm wondering why folks would carry anything less than .40, as easily-concealable 40s and 45s are more than abundant and affordable out there.

Wadda ya think?

Click to expand...

I think everyone’s physiology is a bit different. There’s going to be a number of folks who have no problem with a mini-45, and others who just can’t make accurate hits fast, or find them too unpleasant to train with. For example, I have no problem with the tiny LCP .380 or LCR .38spl that some people find just brutal. But I don’t particularly care for the recoil of a full sized polymer 9mm.

Also, some folks will prioritize capacity over caliber, and arguments can be made that a good hollow point 9mm or exceptional hollowpoint .380 can equal or exceed the performance of .45acp. Of course, .45acp fans can counter that this means their 1911 stoked with equivalent-quality flying ashtrays is all the more devastating. And someone else can counter that more 9mm beats fewer 45s. (We won’t even touch on things like the boom or push of 45 vs the crack or jump of 40 or 9mm...)

Basically they’re all pretty good, and a lot comes down to subjective things not easily quantified in a spec sheet.

For me it depends on the size of the gun. I like & usually carry .40 in a compact sized pistol. I have always used 9mm if I choose to carry a subcompact or a micro sized pistol. As has been stated though everyone is different. I'm 6'2" * about 210 pounds. 9mm, .40 & .45 have never bothered me. My wife is recoil sensitive. She is better off shooting a large 9mm or a Shield sized .380. I like M&P 2.0 pistols. I read a range report on another forum where the OP said he didn't like shooting the M&P 2.0 because the grip texture (it is aggressive) hurts his hands. As has been stated we all make our choices based on our own perceptions & preferences.

I stick with .38 Spcl, .380 or 9mm because I don't want to introduce another caliber into my reportoire. I feel any of those calibers are more than capable as a defensive round.

1. Pick the size and weight of a gun that best fits your carry mode comfortably.
2. Pick the most powerful caliber that you can control in that gun.
3. If capacity is an issue after step 1 and 2, go down in caliber incrementally until you are comfortable with the capacity.

My personal experience, started in LE in the early 90's, local sheriffs department. You could carry anything you wanted as long as it was a Colt of Smith 4" in .38. Round was 158 Grain SWC HP +P aka the FBI load, it worked. A few years later worked for the largest LE Department in the country, first was a revolver 158 Grain SWC Federal Nyclad, non hollow point. Saw a few shootings, it worked. Then to 9mm, first ball ammo 115 grain fmj, did not work, caused them to switch to Speer Gold Dot 125 grain, worked very well, still does. Off duty S&W 135 Grain Gold Dot Short Barrel in a Smith 640, worked very well, still does. This is from personal observation. I still carry the same brand 9mm and .38 every day with the occasional Ruger LCP with Fiochi 90 gr XTP, good round, some videos available. That is my choice. Saying that I am not 100% sure it really matters. I have a few good war stories where the guy with the .25 beat the guy with the .45. I have seen a .177 pellet fired from a window by a kid penetrate the heart of a elderly person walking down the street. Its really about hits. Is sounds cliché but just carry what you are best with, you know your going to have with you and trust the most. There are some good videos about super premium specialty ammo. When you pay $50 for a box of 20 and you magazine carries 15 how many did you practice with? Does the gun really like them, what is the point of aim? Mindset is first, gun is second, ammo third. First rule of a gun fight is have a gun. Hopefully you will never need it.

So I'm wondering why folks would carry anything less than .40, as easily-concealable 40s and 45s are more than abundant and affordable out there.
Wadda ya think?[/QUOTE]

A retired police officer named Greg Ellifritz did a study a few years ago, trying to determine which caliber was most effective. From the data he was able to get -- and getting data is apparently a real problem when it comes to self-defense shootings -- it would seem that being able to shoot your gun effectively by hitting your target at least 2-3 times is more important than caliber assuming that you are shooting one of the following: .380, .38 / .357, 9mm, .40, or .45. Here's a link to a presentation discussing the findings:

Another factor that I've only recently become aware of is the potential for permanent hearing damage if you fire a magnum handgun with no hearing protection, particularly indoors. That factor, combined with the Ellifritz study, seems to militate in favor of the .380, seems to me.