"Carry" Caliber Wars???

As has been noted, mentioned, quoted, and rehashed, people carry smaller guns for all kinds of reasons.
If work attire is not an issue as is the situation for me currently in the cold off-season. I'll pick my .45 Shield all day long. It weighs very little, is small enough that I don't find it uncomfortable, and this time of year I wear my stretchy Old Navy jeans so I don't have to worry about it digging into my hip/back like I do when I am wearing my more robust work jeans in the summer. The caliber isn't what does it for me over the comfort of the gun so that I will actually carry it. I wouldn't really care if it were 40 or 9mm or even a .380. It's slim and I shoot it well. I kinda forgot I had it tucked in the back of my jeans in my foxx holster. I've got it loaded 6+1 and have an 8 round magazine hanging out in my coat pocket to offset the weight of my cell phone in the other.

When the work weather hits, it's tucked in polo and jeans. I pretty much have to go with something that fits in my back jeans pocket that is not only invisible to customers but I can sit on for at least a half an hour as I go over a proposal. That's a .380. I have no qualms with the .380. The ones I carry I shoot well and have been reliable. I don't mind the .22 magnum either, for that matter if I am down to needing to carry in gym shorts. My work is generally done in nicer parts of town, but I don't fear going anywhere with "just" a .380 on my person. Civil Unrest does not equal Zombie Apocalypse. If for some reason I found myself in such a situation, I doubt I'd be the target and worrying about having enough firepower to "solve" the situation is borderline psychotic, IMHO. Then again, I don't live in a major metropolitan area and any protests have been 100% peaceful here. But I digress. Bottom line: I got 99 problems and a extremely unlikely hypothetical isn't one of them.

I have really streamlined my carry philosophy this year:
Slim single stack when I can (the Shield .45).
Pocket .380 when I can't. (Most of the year about 14 hours a day due to work hustle)
.357 revolver goes in the bag for travel or on my hip when I go out into the woods. (.357 gives me warm and fuzzies over pretty much every other round and is pretty good medicine for anything I am bound to stumble across.)

I'm kinda done overthinking things and talking in circles as to what I carry and why. Goes on my belt or pocket, I go on with my life. I do practice (when ammo is available) so that I am a decent shot, but I'm kinda over crunching numbers over calibers.

Kleanbore said:

Nor do I. I put it on with my pants in the morning and I take it off at bed-time.

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This is what I do; lightweight 1911 in 45 acp + two spare mags: walking dogs, casual bicycle ride, groceries, pick up pizza, wherever.

For me when I bought my first handgun I chose 9MM because of ammo price, I wanted to shoot and practice a lot, and because I had not shot anything other than a 22 handgun to be honest was concerned with recoil.

Turns out for me the recoil concern was really unfounded, but 9mm seemed to "make sense". Additional handguns were purchased with the intent to carry, and practice a lot. I started reloading my own and it was easier to load high volume with one caliber. I just never went away from 9mm. It's what I carry, it's what is in the nightstand, it's what I practice with, and 95% of the time it is what I take to the range in pistol form. The only other pistol caliber I currently own is 45 Colt and .22. I like easy.

-Jeff

I don't believe in the caliber wars any more.

In my youth, i spent a lot of time around folks of the korea and vietnam veteran era. In my formative years, i therefore came to understand that .45 was the superior caliber, period. When i started carrying, I bought the nicest 1911 i could afford, trained with it a lot, and trusted it implicitly. After all, the common wisdom was that 1 or 2 rounds of .45 will put down anyone, right?

Many years, and a lot of reading and discussion with LEO and military types of the modern era has taught me that pistol caliber is far less important than confidence, good ammunition, and above all, being able to hit where you aim. A shooter who can put 5 rounds of .380 in the x-ring at 10 yards is better off than one who can hit the target 1 time in 3 with a .45ACP.

So what does that mean for me? Well, i still usually carry a .45, because i've trained with it, I'm proficient with it, and i trust it. Usually a Shield .45, or an FNX-45 if i'm travelling or can comfortably expect to keep a jacket over it. My Kimber has been relegated to "dress gun" and range duty since it has the bulk of the FNX but capacity more like the Shield.

My wife usually carries a SIG .40, and she finds it comfortable and accurate.

I have a friend who was an aspiring LEO, whose first pistol was a Glock 21, but she's not a big person and the combination of large grip and stout recoil made it hard for her to shoot accurately. I talked her into trying a 26, which she found much more comfortable both to shoot and carry.

At the end of the day, any of the popular carry calibers from about .380 and up will do the job fairly reliably, as long as you can reasonably expect to hit your target. As a result, when people ask my advice about what handgun to get, i tell them to see what feels comfortable in their hand and indexes naturally, rather than necessarily recommending a certain model or caliber.

Ii actually like the looks of my 42. It also has been very dependable. It will fit in all of the pockets I have.

My second choice would be a 365.

Whether you carry a 9mm, 40, 45 or what have you, think of all good hits basically the same. Now, which round can better get you multiple hits quicker?

For me it is 9mm, but i can utilize a .40 or .45 with very similar results.
For some smaller individuals, it might mean .380 is the gun to meet the standards for them.

The more I learn the less I care about caliber.

Quick story: An individual had quantity 13, .40 caliber projectiles removed from several parts of his body including vital organs-- shots were fired by police-- the subject survived, and collapsed about 8-10 seconds after taking those rounds, while he still was brandishing a weapon.... all service caliber handguns are whimpy when compared to long guns, and so whether you choose 9mm, 40, or 45 or anything in between those it really doesnt matter. Just how well you can use it makes the diference.
Just my .02

My son at 3.5 years old had a ND. Due in part to my stupidity and someone else's. He's 11 now and has hearing problems. Glock 22 indoors. And the round didnt penatrate as far as I would have thought. Two layers of sheetrock, a dress, and finally a shirt. Cannot remember the brand of hollow points. But almost any round indoors = permanent hearing damage. With exception to suppressed.

JohnKSa said:

Isn't it great that there's such a huge variety of handguns out there that almost everyone can find one that fits their own set of requirements and preferences?

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Agreed

If i didnt have to worry about concealment, I would carry a 10mm all of the time, Glock 20 to be exact.
And when im open carrying, I do carry just that.

Due to the need for concealment, i wind up with a Glock 19 or a Kahr K9..... for ease of concealment.

If i lived in a tropical environment, and wore a tank top and swim trunks all day long (which i do not!!), I could definitely see the merit in a very compact .380 like the Ruger or Diamondback .380 (ive handled them, but never have owned a .380)

Ive found that in order to be armed as often as possible (which I highly recommend by the way, for lawful gun owners!) It is much easier to have a gun that is 100% comfortable all of the time.

This 7+1 Kahr is the biggest handgun I will ever carry concealed at this stage in my life ( 70+), and that’s without an extra magazine.

wcwhitey said:

My personal experience, started in LE in the early 90's, local sheriffs department. You could carry anything you wanted as long as it was a Colt of Smith 4" in .38. Round was 158 Grain SWC HP +P aka the FBI load, it worked. A few years later worked for the largest LE Department in the country, first was a revolver 158 Grain SWC Federal Nyclad, non hollow point. Saw a few shootings, it worked. Then to 9mm, first ball ammo 115 grain fmj, did not work, caused them to switch to Speer Gold Dot 125 grain, worked very well, still does. Off duty S&W 135 Grain Gold Dot Short Barrel in a Smith 640, worked very well, still does. This is from personal observation. I still carry the same brand 9mm and .38 every day with the occasional Ruger LCP with Fiochi 90 gr XTP, good round, some videos available. That is my choice. Saying that I am not 100% sure it really matters. I have a few good war stories where the guy with the .25 beat the guy with the .45. I have seen a .177 pellet fired from a window by a kid penetrate the heart of a elderly person walking down the street. Its really about hits. Is sounds cliché but just carry what you are best with, you know your going to have with you and trust the most. There are some good videos about super premium specialty ammo. When you pay $50 for a box of 20 and you magazine carries 15 how many did you practice with? Does the gun really like them, what is the point of aim? Mindset is first, gun is second, ammo third. First rule of a gun fight is have a gun. Hopefully you will never need it.

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Excellent post...WC Right now, sitting in the family room, I've got a 3" Smith .357 on my hip loaded with wadcutters at 850-900 fps...we're a farm family and that's all I'll need doing the chores today. For trips to town, it's generally a Sig P365...but I've been known to pack a Sig .45 if headed into Louisville. Choices will differ per individual, but mindset, as WC points out leads the pack in importance. Situational awareness trumps a quick draw...and ya gotta have a gun for a gun fight. Rod

Palladan44 said:

Whether you carry a 9mm, 40, 45 or what have you, think of all good hits basically the same. Now, which round can better get you multiple hits quicker?

For me it is 9mm, but i can utilize a .40 or .45 with very similar results.
For some smaller individuals, it might mean .380 is the gun to meet the standards for them.

The more I learn the less I care about caliber.

Quick story: An individual had quantity 13, .40 caliber projectiles removed from several parts of his body including vital organs-- shots were fired by police-- the subject survived, and collapsed about 8-10 seconds after taking those rounds, while he still was brandishing a weapon.... all service caliber handguns are whimpy when compared to long guns, and so whether you choose 9mm, 40, or 45 or anything in between those it really doesnt matter. Just how well you can use it makes the diference.
Just my .02

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2 Videos I saw..first, a gent shot in the shoulder with a 22LR..went down like a big sack of potatoes and the other, lady shot in the neck with a .45..sittimg there, talking to paramedics with a towel on her neck, 'smiling'...

Ah, what to carry, what to carry! Choices, choices!

It's almost like being a kid again with just a couple dollars in my pocket and looking at ALL THE CANDY IN THE AISLE I could buy and trying to figure out exactly what, and how much, I could get with the change jingling in my pocket! I could get this and this and this...OH, LOOK! SLO-POKES! I could get two of them, but then I'd have to give up these over here...

What to carry is as much a subjective choice as it is a practical one. People make these choices all the time, too.

So...why NOT carry a .45 ACP over a .380? Well, why NOT carry that .380 that LOOKS better to the eye than the .45?

Choices are a balance of caliber, weight, size, grip, capacity, carry method, dress code required for the occasion, and yes...even aesthetics. Probably a dozen other considerations, too, practical and not.

But for all that, the important thing is that it works for the individual.

And it looks to me like the OP has something that works for him.

A RM380 in a simple pouch type "holster" works but it tends to stay on when drawn from back pocket. Am trying a de santis "sticky" holster right now. It works great in regular pants but same issue in Carhartt overalls with looser back pocket. Heard about having velcro added to overalls and may look into it. Will add the RM380 with either holster is so comfortable i sometimes forget its there. Neither one "prints" and so comfortable i don't notice it even on long drives. Will say have to remember which back pocket its to avoid uncomfortable moments at the counter when wrong pocket is chosen.

vintovka said:

A RM380 in a simple pouch type "holster" works but it tends to stay on when drawn from back pocket. Am trying a de santis "sticky" holster right now. I

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Take a look at Robert Mika's custom made pocket holsters. He designed them to stay in the pocket when you draw, and stay open in there for ease of re-holster. LOTS of good words about his product from 642/442 snubby owners. He has both round cut and square cut, to match yoru pocket style. I have several of his. A former cop, Robert originally made them for himself for his BUG, but then colleagues kept buying from him, so he started his business. Each order is custom made, so you will have to wait for it once ordered.

Craig_VA said:

Take a look at Robert Mika's custom made pocket holsters. He designed them to stay in the pocket when you draw, and stay open in there for ease of re-holster. LOTS of good words about his product from 642/442 snubby owners. He has both round cut and square cut, to match yoru pocket style. I have several of his. A former cop, Robert originally made them for himself for his BUG, but then colleagues kept buying from him, so he started his business. Each order is custom made, so you will have to wait for it once ordered.

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Thanks for link. Nice holsters! Problem is being virtually buttless a brick would be a loose fit my overalls. The $15 Desantis works fine in tighter pants pockets and may have wife just sew overall pocket for closer fit, Other alternative to velcro is a liner of some kind. Will see and report back if any improvement. BTW like everything else what was a sub $150 pistol has gone ballistic (pun intended)

What I always tell people that ask me why I carry the gun I have is, you carry what you think it will take to stop the largest threat against you.
If you are a large man that has to walk to work in a bad neighborhood maybe you will want to carry a 1911 .45 but if you are a small female that never gets out without your husband (that carries) next to you the maybe you would want just something to stop what gets past him, like a .380.

So there are nicer opponents in 'good' neighborhoods. Hobbits maybe? I don't get the bad neighborhood theme that comes up so often. If you are in a fight, it is not a good neighborhood. A house of worship in a nice neighborhood - only nice terrorists attack them?

I understand the convenience, conceal argument but not the neighborhood argument.

AK Hunter said:

What I always tell people that ask me why I carry the gun I have is, you carry what you think it will take to stop the largest threat against you.
If you are a large man that has to walk to work in a bad neighborhood maybe you will want to carry a 1911 .45 but if you are a small female that never gets out without your husband (that carries) next to you the maybe you would want just something to stop what gets past him, like a .380.

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Dunno some of the Black Talon "like" .380 loads are pretty devastating at close range. I have seen folks get a big gun, carry it for a while in OWB holster, and find it cumbersome. They often take it off (and leave it in my car or elsewhere) or try a fanny pack (and leave it in my car or elsewhere). When teaching plain clothes cops (hazmat/bloodborne pathogens) every other class, often as not, i would find a nice surprise, and always fun to return it. Got to point would end class with. "I'm keeping whatever you leave behind". Problem solved. I think is there's a point between convenience, comfort and actual need.

GEM said:

So there are nicer opponents in 'good' neighborhoods. Hobbits maybe? I don't get the bad neighborhood theme that comes up so often. If you are in a fight, it is not a good neighborhood. A house of worship in a nice neighborhood - only nice terrorists attack them?

I understand the convenience, conceal argument but not the neighborhood argument.

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I don't get that "logic" either.
Carry a pocket 380 in a "good" area but carry more elsewhere (area of perceived greater threat), makes no sense.
Seems one would desire the same ASAP potential to stop a threat(s) regardless of location, not less if attack on life happens in a nice area.
Also, apparently the "bad" area people are conveniently immobile, they are stuck and can't make it to the "good" area, especially in daylight. (Doesn't make sense).

CDW4ME said:

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I don't get that "logic" either.
Carry a pocket 380 in a "good" area but carry more elsewhere (area of perceived greater threat), makes no sense.
Seems one would desire the same ASAP potential to stop a threat(s) regardless of location, not less if attack on life happens in a nice area.
Also, apparently the "bad" area people are conveniently immobile, they are stuck and can't make it to the "good" area, especially in daylight. (Doesn't make sense).

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Agree.

I've used the example before but anecdotally, living in a "good" area in the last 5 years we've had armed daylight home invasions (methheads on a spree) a few murders (domestic) and a mass shooting (started domestic, led to a manhunt and included an LEO killed).

Again, low crime "good" rural area. If I go to my nice small town bank to deposit a check for my kids account and a nutbag decides to go mass shooter on his ex wife and her co-workers (which is what happened) I want to have fighting gun in my hand over my "good area" .32 or .380.

Find something that works well for you, and make sure you can afford to train with it as often as possible. And thats really the end of the story.
No caliber is really "better" than another.

How about the question of carrying 1- double stacked (Glock 19) with no spare magazine, vs. Carring a single stacked (Kahr K9) with 1 spare magazine? Hmm.