Official price increase

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Somethings here are plentiful and cheap because of off shore manufacturing, remove that and your a captive audience, so to speak. At least they claim to be increasing production.

That’s our only chance, having supply out pace demand. It does cost money to even store a product that’s not selling. That’s when prices are adjusted down.
 
packetloss said:
It's not that cut and dry. The ammo manufacturers were (and at this point) still are selling to their distributers at previously negotiated prices (i.e. 2019 prices). The distributers and those after them in the supply chain are selling above MSRP. Even if you agree to those prices, they are gouging prices, due to their access to the supply. Likewise, there are millions of new gun owners and they don't know what "normal" prices are and if they see a box of ammo for $x in their LGS they just buy it thinking it's normal pricing.

Then there are some sites that are blatantly trying to trick people. I saw a post where someone ordered primers where the price was exactly what 5K were selling at, but it turned out to be only 1K. It was even above gunbroker prices.

If the ammo/component manufacturers aren't making more money per box than they were a year ago, why should the distributers be the only ones raking in the extra money? That is certainly not going to benefit us, the shooting community, in the long run. I guess this is why a bunch of them, including the powder companies, have started selling on their own sites.
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It is still not gouging if you WILLINGLY pay the asking price; period. Until the demand either subsides or the supply increases, the market is dictating where the proper pricing model should be; that is how free markets work. If you do not like the prices then open your own plant and sell direct to everyone at last year's prices; you should be making a fortune.
 
George P said:
It is still not gouging if you WILLINGLY pay the asking price; period. Until the demand either subsides or the supply increases, the market is dictating where the proper pricing model should be; that is how free markets work. If you do not like the prices then open your own plant and sell direct to everyone at last year's prices; you should be making a fortune.
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Who said anyone is willingly paying those prices? Folks are grudgingly paying those prices. Price gouging is when the price is being manipulated. In the case of ammo and primers for example, the manufacturers are selling it to distributors for the SAME price they were in 2019. Somewhere along the distribution line the price is being jacked up. The ammo manufacturers are making the same amount per box that they were making last year. If the manufacturers raise prices because they can't meet demand or due to commodity price increases that is an inflationary price increase. There is a difference.
 
George P said:
It is still not gouging if you WILLINGLY pay the asking price; period. Until the demand either subsides or the supply increases, the market is dictating where the proper pricing model should be; that is how free markets work. If you do not like the prices then open your own plant and sell direct to everyone at last year's prices; you should be making a fortune.
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The whole price gouging reaction is common because it’s intuitive (but incorrect) and government bureaucrats warn against doing it just before a hurricane or blizzard when it’s more likely correct. Any firm who cares about staying in business knows gouging in the short term is against their self interests over the longer term.
 
packetloss said:
Who said anyone is willingly paying those prices? Folks are grudgingly paying those prices. Price gouging is when the price is being manipulated. In the case of ammo and primers for example, the manufacturers are selling it to distributors for the SAME price they were in 2019. Somewhere along the distribution line the price is being jacked up. The ammo manufacturers are making the same amount per box that they were making last year. If the manufacturers raise prices because they can't meet demand or due to commodity price increases that is an inflationary price increase. There is a difference.
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If one is buying a discretionary item whether grudgingly or not, then by definition it’s willing. Components cost too much? Don’t buy. Only if it’s a non-discretionary item (baby formula a common example) would it be unwilling.
 
packetloss said:
Who said anyone is willingly paying those prices? Folks are grudgingly paying those prices. Price gouging is when the price is being manipulated. In the case of ammo and primers for example, the manufacturers are selling it to distributors for the SAME price they were in 2019. Somewhere along the distribution line the price is being jacked up. The ammo manufacturers are making the same amount per box that they were making last year. If the manufacturers raise prices because they can't meet demand or due to commodity price increases that is an inflationary price increase. There is a difference.
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And wholesale prices HAVE gone up - a little. The retail prices reflect what the market will bear. I do not care if it is grudgingly or not; folks are WILLING to part with dollars for ammo; that is how it is supposed to work. NO one is forcing anyone to buy anything at any price, and that also includes gas and plywood and generators during hurricane season.
 
CQB45ACP said:
If one is buying a discretionary item whether grudgingly or not, then by definition it’s willing. Components cost too much? Don’t buy. Only if it’s a non-discretionary item (baby formula a common example) would it be unwilling.
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Who's to say what is purely discretionary vs non-discretionary. If you want to get technical, food and oxygen are the only non-discretionary items. Even clean filtered water, baby formula and health care is discretionary. None of that existed 200 years ago and people lived.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation for folks that have been shooting for years, either professionally, as a hobby or for self defense (which arguably requires practice to keep up your skills) to just up and give it up. Those folks are grudgingly paying the prices.
 
George P said:
And wholesale prices HAVE gone up - a little. The retail prices reflect what the market will bear. I do not care if it is grudgingly or not; folks are WILLING to part with dollars for ammo; that is how it is supposed to work. NO one is forcing anyone to buy anything at any price, and that also includes gas and plywood and generators during hurricane season.
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The prices are being manipulated in the secondary market. That is not good for the manufacturers or the consumers. Lets leave it at that.
 
packetloss said:
Who's to say what is purely discretionary vs non-discretionary. If you want to get technical, food and oxygen are the only non-discretionary items. Even clean filtered water, baby formula and health care is discretionary. None of that existed 200 years ago and people lived.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation for folks that have been shooting for years, either professionally, as a hobby or for self defense (which arguably requires practice to keep up your skills) to just up and give it up. Those folks are grudgingly paying the prices.
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As well they should. If folks have been shooting for years and haven't learned from the recent past, then their idiocy is on them and they deserve to pay those prices. Those prices discourage folks from buying out the store, thus leaving some on the shelf for folks who truly need it. And yes it applies to baby formula or anything else. Anti-gouging laws are no different than rent control; government interference in the free market economy where free exchange of goods and services - and those prices - are dictated by the simple laws of supply and demand
 
It's normal to see new people to the hobby get upset when prices get raised to untenable amounts in a prolonged period and it's our duty a seasoned gun owners to explain the past to them; its humorous when long time shooters get upset.

I've seen it time and time again with a lot of seasoned shooters they are rifle/handgun rich and cartridge/component poor. Doesn't make any sense.

I have not bought any ammo at inflated rates for myself other than a new caliber that I got into that I wasn't established in; and I didn't complain at paying double the price for the ammo and components; that was my choice to pay the money to enjoy that caliber rather than waiting for the market to correct itself. Was it a need, no it was a want and I decided my ability to enjoy/use that caliber superseded rational thought that I could wait for things to normalize.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

The best thing people can do is remember how they felt in these times save their money rather than buying overpriced components; wait for an opportunity at normalized prices and seize the day.
 
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packetloss said:
Who's to say what is purely discretionary vs non-discretionary. If you want to get technical, food and oxygen are the only non-discretionary items. Even clean filtered water, baby formula and health care is discretionary. None of that existed 200 years ago and people lived.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation for folks that have been shooting for years, either professionally, as a hobby or for self defense (which arguably requires practice to keep up your skills) to just up and give it up. Those folks are grudgingly paying the prices.
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Oh well
 
I don't think that word "manipulate" means what you think it means..
Look at it this way..If retailers were forced to sell 9mm at 18cents/round right now, It would be backordered for 5+ years, because people would be ordering multiple cases at a time... The only reason you can find any ammo is because of the high prices that some people choose not to pay..

It sucks, especially if you don't have a big stash, but the free market swings both ways and prices have been very low for a few years.
 
George P said:
As well they should. If folks have been shooting for years and haven't learned from the recent past, then their idiocy is on them and they deserve to pay those prices. Those prices discourage folks from buying out the store, thus leaving some on the shelf for folks who truly need it. And yes it applies to baby formula or anything else. Anti-gouging laws are no different than rent control; government interference in the free market economy where free exchange of goods and services - and those prices - are dictated by the simple laws of supply and demand
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Good points...as we old timers recall from the 1973 oil embargo and resulting price controls, gas rationing via odd/even license plates, mile long lines, etc., there NEVER was a gasoline shortage. There were government price controls which made it unprofitable to refine and ship gasoline to some regions of the country. Those regions had none, while others were swimming in it.
 
It looks like prices are going up everywhere every few months. I just checked Cabelas and Midway and SPP prices are up at least $10 from when I found some in October. Glad I bought powder in October too!

Like the last few shortages, I expect retail prices to continue to climb until everyone's basement is full. Then, they will stop buying from scalpers. Scalpers will be caught with inventory and stop buying up all the retail stock. Things will be available again at retail stores and online. Then and only then will retail prices slowly fall again.

I remember when 22LR was unobtainium for a few years after Sandy Hook in 2012. Then, in the span of a few months, it was on the shelf in great quantities. Cabelas had tables stacked high of 22LR bulk packs on sale. Same thing with 9mm and other pistol calibers. You couldn't get it anywhere. Then, it all came back overnight and sales were everywhere.
 
George P said:
......NO one is forcing anyone to buy anything at any price, and that also includes gas and plywood and generators during hurricane season.
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I was wondering if someone was going to bring that up. Businesses who price gouge for those items during impending hurricanes are often prosecuted and fined for such gouging, the premise being that one of the many uses for those items is the preservation of life and property. Could that same argument not be made for guns, ammo and reloading components? Just asking.
 
WeekendReloader said:
It looks like prices are going up everywhere every few months. I just checked Cabelas and Midway and SPP prices are up at least $10 from when I found some in October. Glad I bought powder in October too!.........

I remember when 22LR was unobtainium for a few years after Sandy Hook in 2012. Then, in the span of a few months, it was on the shelf in great quantities. Cabelas had tables stacked high of 22LR bulk packs on sale. Same thing with 9mm and other pistol calibers. You couldn't get it anywhere. Then, it all came back overnight and sales were everywhere. [/QUOTE]
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And makers were caught with too much inventory (carrying costs are expensive) and forced to lay off folks. Some were caught with expensive loans from poorly timed expansion and some did not survive. Manufacturers are ardent students of history and they are not going to get caught financially exposed like that again, so recovery will take longer than previous times just because of the millions of new gun owners now added to the list of buyers. If left unfettered by the government, the supply/demand curve will go more towards a normal look. Until then, adjust your budgets accordingly.
 
higgite said:
I was wondering if someone was going to bring that up. Businesses who price gouge for those items during impending hurricanes are often prosecuted and fined for such gouging, the premise being that one of the many uses for those items is the preservation of life and property. Could that same argument not be made for guns, ammo and reloading components? Just asking.
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No, and it can't be said for hurricanes either - that is merely political pandering to accommodate those idiots who wait until the storm is upon them to then decide it is time to gas up, buy water or plywood. Mother nature is a cruel teacher; she gives you the test first and the lesson afterwards
 
George P said:
No, and it can't be said for hurricanes either - that is merely political pandering to accommodate those idiots who wait until the storm is upon them to then decide it is time to gas up, buy water or plywood. Mother nature is a cruel teacher; she gives you the test first and the lesson afterwards
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WRT pre-storm issues, it may be political pandering but folks in those jurisdictions keep electing those officials thus endorsing those policies so at some point it’s no longer pandering and is simply but importantly the will of the people.
 
CQB45ACP said:
The whole price gouging reaction is common because it’s intuitive (but incorrect) and government bureaucrats warn against doing it just before a hurricane or blizzard when it’s more likely correct. Any firm who cares about staying in business knows gouging in the short term is against their self interests over the longer term.
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CTD gets away with it all the time and has done so for years. though they did have to pay back a fraction of a paltry sum compared to their profit.
 
CQB45ACP said:
WRT pre-storm issues, it may be political pandering but folks in those jurisdictions keep electing those officials thus endorsing those policies so at some point it’s no longer pandering and is simply but importantly the will of the people.
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I disagree with it being the will of the people; it is those who are reliant on others and not themselves who cry about things like these. They want to blame someone else for their unpreparedness, whether it is a generator or a box of ammo, and when faced with having to take care of themselves at a greater cost had they prepared whine to politicians who never let a good crisis go to waste if they can find some political capital in it for themselves.
 
George P said:
I disagree with it being the will of the people; it is those who are reliant on others and not themselves who cry about things like these. They want to blame someone else for their unpreparedness, whether it is a generator or a box of ammo, and when faced with having to take care of themselves at a greater cost had they prepared whine to politicians who never let a good crisis go to waste if they can find some political capital in it for themselves.
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In Florida this has been going on for generations. (I’m talking about plywood not ammo). It’s the will of the plurality of voters regardless of their motivation.
 
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