Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)
- Thread starter Walkalong
- Start date
I went out again today after work, second batch. Bumped up the charges a tenth, shot five each this time.
Primers all look real good, a little glare on some of the Alpha cases, but I also used magnification to look at all of them.
The numbers. Looks like the slightly heavier Alpha brass needs a tenth less powder to get to roughly the same place.
I shot ok, but am real happy with the results anyway.
The first Alpha brass group was all me losing concentration, did better on the next one, but let one hang out.
Primers all look real good, a little glare on some of the Alpha cases, but I also used magnification to look at all of them.
The numbers. Looks like the slightly heavier Alpha brass needs a tenth less powder to get to roughly the same place.
I shot ok, but am real happy with the results anyway.
The first Alpha brass group was all me losing concentration, did better on the next one, but let one hang out.
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A good little thread about long range rifle offerings these days.:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lr-rifles.880464/
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lr-rifles.880464/
GoldieMI
Member
this thread has me thinking about a 6 Dasher build and getting off my butt to do PRS this year.
MarshallDodge
Member
I started playing with the 112 grain Barnes Match Burners in the 6BR using SW Precision. Last week I shot some out to 600 yards but the wind was all over and the velocity was way low so I wasn't impressed by the consistency compared the the 105 RDF. Turning up the load by almost a full grain yielded similar elevation as the 105 RDF at 100 and 300 yards, and I like how the primers look despite the large firing pin.
Today I shot two groups at 100 yards and 300 yards. Both look promising so I'm going to drag out the chrono the next time I go out.
Today I shot two groups at 100 yards and 300 yards. Both look promising so I'm going to drag out the chrono the next time I go out.
My buddy shot the GT last year, at first it was love/hate, but when he finally quit playing with the load and stuck to something, he loves it. He is still talking about maybe getting a Dasher, but he has also been talking about running a straight BR.
If you run a 105 Hybrid at 2850 or up you can have success. More speed is nice though.
I shot with a guy running 115 Gr DTACs in straight BR cases at Blakely last year. He said sometimes they would tilt down and mis-feed, and it bit him in one stage.
If you run a 105 Hybrid at 2850 or up you can have success. More speed is nice though.
I shot with a guy running 115 Gr DTACs in straight BR cases at Blakely last year. He said sometimes they would tilt down and mis-feed, and it bit him in one stage.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,888
What has really had me scratching my head about the GT is the seemingly magical velocities guys are getting from such small charges. Not just claims, but witnessed speeds. Guys put a grain or two more powder into a GT than we’d use in a Dasher, but then get over 100fps more speed, only lagging the Creed by another ~100fps, while the Creed is running ~10grn more powder...
I have a barrel about to be reamed for GT, not sure when I’ll get to play with it, considering I have roughly EXACTLY enough 105 Hybrids and BR4’s to get me through this match season, and considering it’s a spare barrel for my 6 Dasher (primary rifle), I’ll have to have a pretty considerable lull and find some of the trickling component flow to justify playing with it.
I have a barrel about to be reamed for GT, not sure when I’ll get to play with it, considering I have roughly EXACTLY enough 105 Hybrids and BR4’s to get me through this match season, and considering it’s a spare barrel for my 6 Dasher (primary rifle), I’ll have to have a pretty considerable lull and find some of the trickling component flow to justify playing with it.
MarshallDodge
Member
Speaking of BR4's, I have about 800 left for the 6BR load, but have 3K CCI 450's that I use in the 6X47. Would should I expect if I run out of BR4's and swap for the 450's?
RMH
Member
I have been following this thread for the last two years. About a month ago I reread all 49 pages again. Now I don't know if I admire or hate you guy's.
So when Santa asked what I wanted for Christmas. I told her I would like to put together a rifle I could play with in my retirement years. She asked how much it might cost. I said I thought I could Build the rifle and get all of the caliber specific reloading tooling and supplies for around $4000. To my surprise it was approved
The parts will start arriving Today.
So when Santa asked what I wanted for Christmas. I told her I would like to put together a rifle I could play with in my retirement years. She asked how much it might cost. I said I thought I could Build the rifle and get all of the caliber specific reloading tooling and supplies for around $4000. To my surprise it was approved
The parts will start arriving Today.
- Tikka T3X CTR 24" 6.5CM
- Vortex PST Gen II 5-25x50 FFP EBR-2C MRAD
- KRG Bravo Chassis Black
- Gen 3 Little Bastard Muzzle Brake
- Atlas Bipod BT10
- 200 pcs Lapua SRP Brass
- RCBS Matchmaster Die Set
- 21st Century Expander Die and Mandrel
- Annealeez Brass Annealer
- And various other pieces and parts
MarshallDodge
Member
Looks like a good start to me!I have been following this thread for the last two years. About a month ago I reread all 49 pages again. Now I don't know if I admire or hate you guy's.
So when Santa asked what I wanted for Christmas. I told her I would like to put together a rifle I could play with in my retirement years. She asked how much it might cost. I said I thought I could Build the rifle and get all of the caliber specific reloading tooling and supplies for around $4000. To my surprise it was approved
The parts will start arriving Today.
Total Price $4167.54
- Tikka T3X CTR 24" 6.5CM
- Vortex PST Gen II 5-25x50 FFP EBR-2C MRAD
- KRG Bravo Chassis Black
- Gen 3 Little Bastard Muzzle Brake
- Atlas Bipod BT10
- 200 pcs Lapua SRP Brass
- RCBS Matchmaster Die Set
- 21st Century Expander Die and Mandrel
- Annealeez Brass Annealer
- And various other pieces and parts
Hopefully you can find reloading components when you need them.
The Dasher & the GT are both very efficient.
MarshallDodge
Member
I've been playing with a 77 TMK 223 load using 8208XBR in Lapua brass. A guy let me shoot over his Labradar today and the results were 2720 FPS average with an SD of 8, out of an 18" Bartlein barrel. That made me happy as I was using Federal 205 primers which I have a good supply of.
GoldieMI
Member
Signed up for my First PRS Match - April 25th. Now I shoot 1000 yards for my own enjoyment, but from the bench or occasionally prone. But a buddy wanted me to go with him this year, this thread in the back of my mind, and I hit the sign up on the match.
sitting with a Defiance Deviant Action, TriggerTech Diamond, McRees Precision Chassis, Vortex 6-24x50 Gen II, Area 419 Hellfire, H4350 (24 lbs), Berger 105 Grain hybrid target bullets (1500), and primers
need to make a caliber decision and order my barrel to get it finished along with the brass and dies
want to do 6mm and not 6CM (have two of them already, love them but want more barrel life - plus they are savage actions)
6 Dasher? 6 GT? 6 BR?
my gut is saying 6 Dasher but I want to use H4350 as my powder...
help please lol
sitting with a Defiance Deviant Action, TriggerTech Diamond, McRees Precision Chassis, Vortex 6-24x50 Gen II, Area 419 Hellfire, H4350 (24 lbs), Berger 105 Grain hybrid target bullets (1500), and primers
need to make a caliber decision and order my barrel to get it finished along with the brass and dies
want to do 6mm and not 6CM (have two of them already, love them but want more barrel life - plus they are savage actions)
6 Dasher? 6 GT? 6 BR?
my gut is saying 6 Dasher but I want to use H4350 as my powder...
help please lol
MarshallDodge
Member
H4350 is too slow for 6BR.
6 Dasher is an awesome cartridge but 6GT would be better suited to H4350, and may feed a little better, depending on the action. 6GT would also give you a little more grunt if you want to shoot a heavier bullet in the future. I would recommend a 1:7.5 twist for the same reason.
6 Dasher is an awesome cartridge but 6GT would be better suited to H4350, and may feed a little better, depending on the action. 6GT would also give you a little more grunt if you want to shoot a heavier bullet in the future. I would recommend a 1:7.5 twist for the same reason.
Most excellent and good luck.
Agreed. But if you go Dasher, get the mags with the spacer. I only have the Impact Dasher, but it feeds 100%with Berger 105 Hybrids.
maryo_hutasoit
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2021
- Messages
- 12
Just want to share this book by Nancy Tompkins (Lapua sponsored, National level long range shooter) here -- http://rifleshootingbynancy.com/index.html
Another important information to meditate after a shooting match is usually less about the rifle nor the hand load. It's usually "Why did I take that shot?" and "Should've done it so-and-so".
As we all know, in the heat of the moment; it's just ourselves, the reticle, and the target. With that, the amount of mental acuity to process wind speed, calculate distance, rules of firing, where to hold, when to fire and other stressors can be quite intense. And in this split second is the key to making a good or bad shot. And so, shooters with stronger mental deliberation shot-after-shot, often perform better - and always able to learn from their mistakes after.
Reason I brought up Nancy's book is because her mental acuity preparation techniques are not like any other I have seen or read (also how to take notes, and paying attention to things that are not immediately obvious). You'll not see this stuff online anywhere. (at least I haven't).
Her advice helped me a great deal in the beginning of shooting long range (F-class in my case) - and I was able to classify myself as Expert in mid-range F-class state match by the end of my first year without stressing out too much. I placed 3rd (no trophy or medal here) in CA state mid range championship in FT-R last year, after not shooting for months. (I also have a family, full time job and frankly not that much time for hobbies)
A lot of the folks I shoot with also shoot PRS, Tactical matches, Palma, XTC High power etc. and we all agree, that all shooting disciplines amount to the same basic marksmanship principles. We all shoot our favorite calibers, everything from 5.56 to 7.62, all sorts of fun gears - but comes the end of the day; the score on the paper is truth. A very good shooter with a .308 winchester can decimate anyone with say, 6.5x284 at 1000 yards, all day. (An exception of course, this exemplary gentleman I know is Lane Buxton, and he belongs to the US rifle team.)
Back to OP's original query; just as a perspective - my first "long range" rifle is a Marlin X7S receiver ($300 rack bargain hunting rifle from Big 5), re-barelled by er shaw at 22" long, topped with $400 Vortex scope. with some no-name bipod. My hand load components are berger, lapua brass, IMR 4064/varget/N530/4895 and what have you. As long as my 100 yards grouping stays at sub half, then it is enough. 100% of my long range shooting error is me grossly over/underestimating my holds by at least 1 minute or more. (or jerking the trigger, or messing with scope mid fire-string). Squeezing another 1/4 MOA off my entire setup certainly wouldn't help my case at all.
and I'll still shoot the Marlin rifle for the next coming matches this year
Wish you the best, and I hope one day we cross path in the firing line somehow!
Another important information to meditate after a shooting match is usually less about the rifle nor the hand load. It's usually "Why did I take that shot?" and "Should've done it so-and-so".
As we all know, in the heat of the moment; it's just ourselves, the reticle, and the target. With that, the amount of mental acuity to process wind speed, calculate distance, rules of firing, where to hold, when to fire and other stressors can be quite intense. And in this split second is the key to making a good or bad shot. And so, shooters with stronger mental deliberation shot-after-shot, often perform better - and always able to learn from their mistakes after.
Reason I brought up Nancy's book is because her mental acuity preparation techniques are not like any other I have seen or read (also how to take notes, and paying attention to things that are not immediately obvious). You'll not see this stuff online anywhere. (at least I haven't).
Her advice helped me a great deal in the beginning of shooting long range (F-class in my case) - and I was able to classify myself as Expert in mid-range F-class state match by the end of my first year without stressing out too much. I placed 3rd (no trophy or medal here) in CA state mid range championship in FT-R last year, after not shooting for months. (I also have a family, full time job and frankly not that much time for hobbies)
A lot of the folks I shoot with also shoot PRS, Tactical matches, Palma, XTC High power etc. and we all agree, that all shooting disciplines amount to the same basic marksmanship principles. We all shoot our favorite calibers, everything from 5.56 to 7.62, all sorts of fun gears - but comes the end of the day; the score on the paper is truth. A very good shooter with a .308 winchester can decimate anyone with say, 6.5x284 at 1000 yards, all day. (An exception of course, this exemplary gentleman I know is Lane Buxton, and he belongs to the US rifle team.)
Back to OP's original query; just as a perspective
- my first "long range" rifle is a Marlin X7S receiver ($300 rack bargain hunting rifle from Big 5), re-barelled by er shaw at 22" long, topped with $400 Vortex scope. with some no-name bipod. My hand load components are berger, lapua brass, IMR 4064/varget/N530/4895 and what have you. As long as my 100 yards grouping stays at sub half, then it is enough. 100% of my long range shooting error is me grossly over/underestimating my holds by at least 1 minute or more. (or jerking the trigger, or messing with scope mid fire-string). Squeezing another 1/4 MOA off my entire setup certainly wouldn't help my case at all. and I'll still shoot the Marlin rifle for the next coming matches this year
Wish you the best, and I hope one day we cross path in the firing line somehow!
Absolutely, the best shooters beat the lesser shooters with the same equipment, we must look inside ourselves to see where improvement is needed. Not that we can all be at the top of the leader board, but hey, we are shooting against ourselves as well. As long as we are improving mentally and physically, we are winning.
A quick story: I was shooting a registered Benchrest match in Georgia decades ago as a young man, the fellow next to me was a "better" shooter who was simply having a bad day, blamed it on his brass. I told him he was just off today, it'll get better, but he got mad, threw that batch of brass in the trash can and loaded up a new set. Well, I shouldn't have done it, but I got the brass out of the trash can, loaded it up, and shot a smaller group than he did our next turn up. Then he got real mad, screwed the barrel off and changed barrels, with the same result. Moral of the story? He was just mentally off and having a bad day.
After a few matches, I now really know that to be very true. My nephew Sam beat me in our second match using my original rifle.Back to OP's original query; just as a perspective
My equipment is still better than I am, but is is very nice to have very good equipment, and I am having a great time, and getting better, and everyone knows the better we do something, the more fun it is. PRS has been/is, so very different than any kind of shooting I had done in the past, where nothing was ever rushed. Just take your time and make the shot. Benchrest was very humbling by the way, even though I had some success, won a few aggregates (String of five five shot groups), and placed well in the occasional Grand Aggregate (Entire weekend of shooting/multiple aggregates).
JFrank
Member
Man ' 115 gr dtac in a straight six ? That's some heavies for sure.
I' like your advice on the 105 class bullets, I've moved to even a lighter 103 gr for 1 k Bench gun
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maryo_hutasoit
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2021
- Messages
- 12
Wow! Ya''ll shooting 115 dtacs? tubb makes it work man - what a mad scientist. at least once in his lifetime; tubb should manufacture the "1 gun" that fits ONLY 1 particular caliber, cartridge, load, and bullet he chooses OR designed - - taking account all he knows and what he really wants to do; and sell them for $10k each - because thats really what its worth. we dont deserve 115 dtacs.
I worked up a pretty good load with DTACs in 6 Creed (never tweaked it), but my nephew Sam has that gun now, so they will sit on the shelf for now, may try them in GT if I get one. I’d like to try the GT, but I do love the Dasher, so easy to load for, low powder charge/recoil, plenty fast.
GoldieMI
Member
Sell me the dasher so you can do the GT lol
I’ll need a new barrel sometime this year on my Impact, but I have an extra stock now, the Foundation, and have a Manners PRS1 ordered. I ordered an Impact action last week as well, when I got the back in stock notice, and it should be here soon.
It will be at least March before the Manners gets here, ordered back in Oct, and maybe April/May before I get a barrel in either Dasher or GT for the new action. Right now I’m broke.
It will be at least March before the Manners gets here, ordered back in Oct, and maybe April/May before I get a barrel in either Dasher or GT for the new action. Right now I’m broke.
GoldieMI
Member
Yeah- I'm talking with Pierce Engineering on this build right now.
Brux vs. Shilen Rachet Barrels
Steel vs. Aluminum Action
etc etc....just hear dollars going out of my pocket lol
Brux vs. Shilen Rachet Barrels
Steel vs. Aluminum Action
etc etc....just hear dollars going out of my pocket lol
