Ethics of killing animals and their status as Game vs Predators vs Fur-bearing vs Varmint/Pest.

I think if we are all honest with ourselves there is some line were we will compromise our aversion to causing/allowing a creature to suffer at our hand.

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I think that is an accurate statement.

Patocazador said:

If I get like she was, I hope legal euthanasia is available

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Or you get somebody with power of attorney to move you out of such a facility...., and who is a good friend who will.....

LD

Fine Figure of a Man said:

I sometimes use little fish, worms, frogs, etc. to catch big fish. I torture them all first. Impale them with hooks and hope their struggle to get free will attract a large fish that will eat them alive. I find it relaxing and a great way to pass the time with family and friends. Kids can't get enough of it.

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I have to wonder whether you are referring to the fishing or the impaling.

OK.........!

My desire to put down a deer quickly has nothing to do with an ethical or moral code. I shoot deer for food/wall decor, therefor I want to recover every one of them that I shoot. Pigs and coyotes are pests to me, so I don’t care about recovering them. I think we have to throw morals and ethics out the window to some degree once we decide to start killing things. How moral or ethical is it to believe that our lives are more important than the lives of a deer/pig/coyote/cockroach? I think it’s a little hypocritical to take the moral high ground after the decision has been made to kill something because it benefits us. Your mileage may vary.

Patocazador said:

I was against human euthanasia until my 97 y.o. grandmother decided she wanted to die. Crippling arthritis, deaf as a post and blind as a bat. No reading, TV, radio, conversations, bed-ridden with bed sores but with a mind sharp as a tack. Who would want to stay alive under those circumstances? She decided to starve herself to death. She refused to eat in the nursing home so they placed a stomach tube in and fed her through that. She actually jerked the tube out and constantly asked me, "How much longer, Bob? I couldn't do anything for her and I felt so sorry for her that I begged the doctor to put her in Hospice to end it. He said she was in too good a shape to do that. I would have prayed for Jack Kevorkian if he were available in Florida but they were busy prosecuting him in Michigan.

If I get like she was, I hope legal euthanasia is available.

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Just a recommendation. A decent dose of morphine and valium will put you out in no time. It's what Dr give us for euthanasia. Or assisted suicide. Promised my grandpa when his time came I would give him the dose. Had the morphine just no valium. He only made it three day's. So it wasn't to bad. My mom how ever held on for a few weeks in agony. Told mt people when it comes down to it give me the dose. Already had cancer. And some things are worse then death itself. Like choking on ones own poop. Has to be expelled. Either bum or mouth. Get constipated enough it goes up not down

mcb said:

I love spiders, especially the hunting spiders (as opposed to orb spinners). I rarely kill them in the house, taking them outside to be free. We have wolf spiders and fishing spiders the size of your palm in the barn. Living in north Alabama we have so many bugs I figure we need more spiders if anything. My respect for spiders is similar to my respect for all predators.

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I live in the sticks, down South, and on my property we treat spiders like they are gods, Venomous ones, not so much, but those big Banana Spiders and Porch Spiders are welcome residents. Better than a bug zapper. We would be overrun by mosquitoes and flies, without them.

I don't kill wolf spiders unless my wife forces me to with her nagging.

Meeks36 said:

Just a recommendation. A decent dose of morphine and valium will put you out in no time. It's what Dr give us for euthanasia. Or assisted suicide. Promised my grandpa when his time came I would give him the dose. Had the morphine just no valium. He only made it three day's. So it wasn't to bad. My mom how ever held on for a few weeks in agony. Told mt people when it comes down to it give me the dose. Already had cancer. And some things are worse then death itself. Like choking on ones own poop. Has to be expelled. Either bum or mouth. Get constipated enough it goes up not down

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My mom was the same way. Went into hospice care with a prognosis of about three to five days before she would pass. Held on for 22 days just to make a point I think. She had a bowel obstruction. Scar tissue after several surgeries and radiation treatments caused her one obstruction after another. After the third surgery, she decided she’d rather leave here and go be with my dad. Cancer and death are ugly, ugly things.

Dibbs said:

I live in the sticks, down South, and on my property we treat spiders like they are gods, Venomous ones, not so much, but those big Banana Spiders and Porch Spiders are welcome residents. Better than a bug zapper. We would be overrun by mosquitoes and flies, without them.

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They're too 'creepy' for me. I also live in the South (out in the country) but will take more Purple Martins, Fish and Turtles to help control mosquitoes. Fly strips or traps will harvest more flies than spiders around your house.

I cooked bacon and eggs this morning. Obviously I am responsible for the death of a pig, his life probably sucked anyway.
Concerning the eggs, am I or am I not a chicken killer?

If you didn’t like them to suffer you would only consume free range chickens and eggs from them, only caveat is you would also have to kill every other animal that likes the way they taste.

Fine Figure of a Man said:

I cooked bacon and eggs this morning. Obviously I am responsible for the death of a pig, his life probably sucked anyway.
Concerning the eggs, am I or am I not a chicken killer?

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Don't have the slightest idea how this correlates with the question asked in the OP about hunting ethics, other than grasping at straws to justify the needless suffering of animals. This is what the OP was about......needless suffering that we ourselves impose when hunting. The pig was born only to be slaughtered, his life probably longer than the average if he was born to a wild sow. His death too, was probably quicker and much more humane than if he was left to forage on his own in the wild. Unless you squeezed the chicken to death to get the eggs, odds are there was no suffering by anything. Unless you got egg shells in the frying pan.

In a world like ours where there are prey animals and predators, there will be death and suffering. If you believe in God, you know it was his plan. If you believe in evolution, you know it is Natural Selection. Some folks believe that plants have feelings and suffer too, so Vegans don't get a break here. The point of the OP was whether or not we had different ethics, as far as amount of suffering we seek to impose upon the animals we shoot. If you wouldn't want your dog gut shot and allowed to suffer for days, why would you wish this on a 'yote? Why do folks cry for days when they gut shoot a trophy buck and don't retrieve it, but when they do it to a Raccoon, it's just a raccoon? No big deal. Is it the buck that suffers more or the shooter? Swatting flies is not the same as hunting deer. Most mousetraps are like Conibears and kill quickly. Why is that any different than a beaver? While most of us as hunters strive for quick and humane kills, reality dictates that is not always the case. The fact that we strive for it and feel bad when we do not accomplish it is what differentiates us from Zoosadism and Psychopaths.

jmorris said:

Fair enough, if we made a thread about, anything in the animal kingdom that one would kill by any means or any circumstances that would allow one to alter their moral principles that govern behavior or the conducting of an activity (ethics). We could see how they are different from one to another and are movable within every individual too.

In some States, it’s illegal to shoot say a deer that has been hit by a car and suffering while dying slowly. Do you break the law and finish it off with a single shot quickly and risk arrest and jail time for yourself or allow it to continue to suffer?

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My dad killed a deer he’d hit with his truck by cutting its throat (didn’t have a gun with him), and his dad (visiting us at the time) told him he was cruel. I asked him if it was less cruel to kill it, or let it hemorrhage internally and lay there crippled until it bled out or a coyote or a vulture started eating it alive.

That conversation didn’t get very far.

I’ve put down deer on the side of the road. I won’t let them lie there suffering when I have the means to end it for them. That’s just dumb.

Flintknapper said:

They're too 'creepy' for me. I also live in the South (out in the country) but will take more Purple Martins, Fish and Turtles to help control mosquitoes. Fly strips or traps will harvest more flies than spiders around your house.

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It's an all-out war, against mosquitoes and flies. The lowly toad, the anole lizards, mosquito hawks, birds, they're all welcome guests.

Dibbs said:

It's an all-out war, against mosquitoes and flies. The lowly toad, the anole lizards, mosquito hawks, birds, they're all welcome guests.

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Agree.

Haven't heard of Dragonflies called "mosquito hawks" since I lived in Louisiana.

Can we really afford to be so self-righteous about critters we consider pests? IMHO, this is a big reason why critters like wild hogs are still pests. Because people want to treat them all with the same level of respect and reverence as vaunted game animals like elk. I don't think any critter should ever be intentionally caused to suffer, in any way. However, I do not think pests should be afforded the same regard as game animals. So the wild hogs, coyotes, ground hogs, prairie dogs, ferals, etc., of the world should get whatever bullet is most convenient to place into their carcass. If more people shot every hog they saw and as many as possible, no matter the firearm or presentation, we wouldn't be quite so overrun with them. I have to quote Hemmingway here, who said that nothing we can do to animals is worse than what they do to each other. I don't take that as license to torture but something for perspective. We can't be bleeding hearts for every single lifeform on this planet. Mankind would've never made it this far. I often wonder how some animal rights lunatics are able to get through the day. Simply having this conversation is a luxury few would've even fathomed through 99.9999% of human history.

I also think it odd that people can't bring themselves to admit they enjoy hunting. Why the hell would we do it if we didn't enjoy it? Too much liberal rhetoric has sunk in. I hunt because I love it. We shoot varmints partly because it needs doing and partly because it's fun. Contrary to anti-gun, anti-hunting rhetoric, shooting varmints for fun does not lead to psychotic behavior. Psychotic people who shoot up schools do not sharpen their skills on a prairie dog town. In fact, most of us who would enjoy laying waste to a prairie dog town would also gladly stand between a school and a psychopath on any given day. We would do so without hesitation, thought of personal harm or fear of death. Don't give in to that moronic 'thinking' by tap dancing around your enjoyment of shooting sports.

To me this is akin to the folks who think we shouldn't use the word "weapon". Because we're just hunting or target shooting. This is disingenuous because the 2nd Amendment does not protect our right to own firearms for hunting, shooting tin cans or as fidget spinners. It protects our right to own firearms so that we may shoot those who try to deprive us of liberty. It was written so by people who had just spent years fighting a war and sacrificing everything for liberty and a better tomorrow. They fought that war with weapons. It dishonors their sacrifice to downplay the reason for the 2nd Amendment.

Off the soapbox......

Patocazador said:

I don't kill wolf spiders unless my wife forces me to with her nagging.

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Ah, the wolf spider. I was born in Florida and lived there until I was 32. When I moved to TN, I learned not everyone has the same definition of "big" when it comes to spiders. To my wife, a "big" spider is the size of a nickle. To me, a "big" spider turns the light off when it leaves a room and sounds like four tiny horses when it trots across the floor.

Not going to speak for anyone else, but as far as I'm concerned I will shoot on sight coyotes and cats.

CraigC, I don't have a problem with enjoying hunting. I freely admit I enjoy hunting. One of the reason I hunt pest species, in the state I do, is you can hunt them 24/7/365. That said, hunting IS hunting, to which there IS an Ethics Code. NO animal should be tortured, or caused pain unnecessarily. That said, if you are a true hunter, I hope you enjoy the woods and nature, because many days you shoot nothing. I've been hunting, every day, for six months, and haven't actually shot anything.(missed a coyote, about 2 months ago)

I came home tonight finding my youngest son (23 yrs old) having shot and killed a large female racoon that had gotten into our duck pen before we had put them up for the night. He's an excellent shot and we'll aware of waiting to insure the potentially rabid predator is dead before removing the vermin from the duck pen...10 minutes had passed since he dispatched the critter and I showed up. He had put 4 rounds of 22lr into its head, but I dropped another round of 10mm into its skull just to make sure, as I've seen a racoon come back to life ready to fight after a solid head shot.

I don't like killing animals but I will protect my ducks, dog, and cat as well as the non predatory animals living on our plot of land. Once they show up, it's simple and straight to the point.

The ducks are still squawking lol!

I feel the same about Coyotes as many in Texas do about hogs,, they are an invasive nuisance. I don't share the respect for Coyotes and Armidillos that I do other animals. There were no Coyotes and Armidillos here when I was a boy. Armidillos started showing up in the late 90's. Coyotes were brought in by some lunatics in the TWRA in the early 80's, now they're trying to do the same with wolves. Coyotes , along with feral cats, have caused a severe decline in rabbits and doves, almost extinction of quail. If I can make a quick kill, I do. But if I make a bad shot on one, oh well, he'll either heal up and I'll get him next time or nature will take its course, either way, good riddance.

mcb said:

I love spiders, especially the hunting spiders (as opposed to orb spinners). I rarely kill them in the house, taking them outside to be free. We have wolf spiders and fishing spiders the size of your palm in the barn. Living in north Alabama we have so many bugs I figure we need more spiders if anything. My respect for spiders is similar to my respect for all predators.

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I have a deal with spiders and it has worked for several decades. Stay out of my house (at least out of sight) and we're good to go. If you are outside I will not bother you.

Pigs are different. I kill them wherever I may find them. They are a destructive curse and need to be eliminated from Texas.