Only that the "bare minimum is acceptable" is prevalent here on THR and that it's been repeated enough that people here will actually argue that there's no advantage to be in the preferred range because 12" is acceptable.
There we go 12" is now the threshold anything above that will work anything below will fail.
How can someone take such a simple statement, reply with a single sentence and get it so wrong?mavracer said:
That's just it the FBI doesn't accept 12" they demand more.
^^^^see the problem here John?^^^^^^^^
That is a contradiction of terms.
You have evidence that the FBI says that their minimum acceptable threshold is not acceptable? Ok, I'd like to see it. And PLEASE, don't quote Urey Patrick's paper saying that more is preferred. We've already been through the difference between 'acceptable' and 'preferred'.
I understand what you see as being a problem, but the real problem, as far as I can tell, is that you are reading more into the FBI standards than is really there.
The 12" minimum certainly is a threshold.
A .308 round from a couple of yards away won't knock over a guy standing on one leg. The link below has a post with a link to a demonstration video. And that's with twice the momentum of a 230gr .45 ACP bullet.
You mean other than the ammo that they actually accept/reject?
Because I read the whole thing and didn't stop at 12" minimum????
So you think if Patrick worked for Scotland Yard the threshold would be 30.48 CM and not rounded to 30 ?
Ammunition that does meet that standard may not be purchased for other reasons involving the procurement process, such as price, schedule, other terms and conditions.
Yes, of course. If they issue one loading of 9mm but don't issue another, that doesn't automatically imply that the round they chose is acceptable and the other one isn't.
Because you can't seem to separate the idea of acceptability from the idea of preference. By the way, as nearly as I can tell, according to the scoring system, it appears that the highest preference is not for ammunition that penetrates up to 18", it's for ammunition that penetrates in the 14" to 16" range.
Maybe 30cm, maybe 30.5cm, maybe 31cm. Who knows. The bottom line is that whatever they set it to would become their threshold of acceptability and things over it would be acceptable while things under it wouldn't be. That's how thresholds work.
Actions speak louder then words. it's an arbitrary threshold could be 11.6 or 12.4,
You can dance around this all you want but it's not going to change the FBI's standard. Actual penetration is measured. Rounds that penetrate less than 12" are penalized since penetration of 12" or more is required.
It is true that penetration over 18" is not penalized nearly as much as penetration under 12", but the protocol does penalize rounds that penetrate over 18" on average. Under 12" penetration is penalized 2 ways, with a very low penetration score and also with a special penalty that applies only to under 12" penetration. Over 18" is penalized only via penetration score, and not by as much even in that respect.
Yes anything under 12" is unacceptable and if you ignore the rest of the protocol everything above 12" is acceptable and they're all equal because
I find it even more amusing that other than recognize that your 12-18" is all acceptable has morphed into 12-18" is all equal you'll spend 3 pages arguing that it takes 3 pages to explain the protocol.
