Don't encourage your murderer!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Phaedrus/69 said:
Got this link from Claude Werner's email letter, and it's a doozy! It appears a couple had a long-running feud with their neighbor across the street which came to a head over shoveled snow. Supposedly the couple was tossing snow from their parking spot onto the neighbor's property. An argument ensued and he left, returning with a firearm. Apparently the couple continued to spout obscenities at him even as he pointed the gun at them, reportedly screaming "Do it!" at the guy. Unsurprisingly, he did it, shooting both of them. He then allegedly went back to his house and retrieved another gun to shoot them some more. If there's any silver lining at all to the story it's that the alleged shooter then shot himself, removing the burden of sorting it all out at trial.

A while ago we had a thread, something to the effect of "you don't know who you're messing with", and boy howdy is that ever true! Over the last few years there have been high profile cases where people have been shot over cell phone use at the movie theater, a disagreement over handicapped parking spaces, what type of things are appropriate to leave by the dumpster, refusal to wear a mask, etc. I think we've seen ample evidence it may indeed be wisest to check oneself before one wrecks oneself. It may feel good to exact revenge on people for petty poor behavior. But next time you scream obscenities at a neighbor who lets his dog crap in your yard, ask yourself is this something worth dying over, or killing? If the answer is no (and really, the answer is virtually always NO) then maybe dial it down a notch.
Click to expand...
The couple that were murdered left behind an autistic 15 year old son. Tragic and senseless.
 
anothernewb said:
that was likely the ultimate conclusion of a long string of confrontations.
Click to expand...

Yep, seen it before, the camera location is likely on purpose but I think that is the point of the thread, it didn’t have to be. I think any one of them could have prevented it. Obviously the killer could not have become a murderer but the other two didn’t have to take the actions they did either.

Important to know that being an instigator doesn’t justify someone killing you but just as important to understand that for every action, there is a reaction.

Active listening, an offer to stop shoveling snow from your property to his, just going back inside and calling authorities (nothing) would have been better than calling him names and only coming up with the idea of calling the police after you’ve been shot.

There is often as many ways to de escalate a situation as there are to allow them to go beyond your control. The actions I see in the video would be like pouring gas on a fire or flooring an auto that’s already going too fast, out of control and down the wrong path.

I am not saying one should be a push over and not stand up for what is right but you certainly shouldn’t literally ask for it. That’s either insanity or incompetence.
 
Last edited:
As said, there’s more going on that what we know. The couple obviously thought they could belittle their neighbor with no repercussions. Maybe they had been for a long time. Too bad the neighbor didn’t get even through legal means. It’s also too bad that everybody lost everything and none of them will have the chance to become better people in the future.
 
I always liked the "fences make good neighbors" approach. I'm ok with the ones I have, but they sometimes do things I don't care for. I'm sure I've pissed them off a time or two as well, but never a major issue.

Escalating a situation with the neighbor (or anyone really, especially if they know where you live) is asking for problems. Even if it doesn't result in a shooting, they know when you're home and when you're not.

A phone call to the shady cousin, letting him know you're not home so he can come steal everything you hold dear. Or that the only person home is your teenage daughter....
No thanks. Don't have to be friends, but don't make enemies of your neighbors.
 
JERRY said:
if anyone learns anything from this it is: do not taunt people
Click to expand...
I sent the link of the longer / full video to my kids, with the caption "This is why you don't do the monkey dance". You never know how the other folk are gonna react, and there's never any profit in it.

Monkey Dance Bad. No Do Monkey Dance.

My personal theory is that the shooter decided on a course of action when the neighbor threatened him with "I'm gonna make your life a living hell!". We have no way of knowing for sure, but I've seen that before - push someone into a corner, and they'll act like it.

The notion that standing there staring at a gun being pointed at you, shot after shot, is also probably worth noting as A Bad Idea. It shows how the target (I won't say victim, because they clearly had their own share of blame here), for all the physical bluster, wasn't really ready to engage.
 
Last edited:
rbernie said:
I sent the link of the longer / full video to my kids, with the caption "This is why you don't do the monkey dance". You never know how the other folk are gonna react, and there's never any profit in it.

Monkey Dance Bad. No Do Monkey Dance.

My personal theory is that the shooter decided on a course of action when the neighbor threatened him with "I'm gonna make your life a living hell!". We have no way of knowing for sure, but I've seen that before - push someone into a corner, and they'll act like it.

The notion that standing there staring at a gun being pointed at you, shot after shot, is also probably worth noting as A Bad Idea. It shows how the target (I won't say victim, because they clearly had their own share of blame here), for all the physical bluster, wasn't really ready to engage.
Click to expand...

Yep, lots of Monkey Dance going on there.
 
rbernie said:
The notion that standing there staring at a gun being pointed at you, shot after shot, is also probably worth noting as A Bad Idea. It shows how the target (I won't say victim, because they clearly had their own share of blame here), for all the physical bluster, wasn't really ready to engage.
Click to expand...

Maybe that was "normalcy bias", simply not understanding and believing the evidence of your own eyes due to shock and surprise. I too thought it was weird that neither of them reacted to the first flurry of shots. I don't know how many hits the shooter scored but it kind of appears that the first salvo missed due to the lack of reaction. But I dunno. Clearly it was an execution right from the start as evidenced by aiming at the head when they were down on the ground.
 
The one I watched required signing into FB via Google because of its "disturbing content"; guy shot them point blank and didn't kill them with either of his first shots; emptied his gun, then got his rifle to finish them off.
 
The shooter either never trained/practiced or he hasn’t been to the range in 20 years. Most likely he’s never even shot any gun. His first 5 shots either completely missed his target at maybe 7 yards? Or possibly the target was hit and didn’t know it. It took the 6th shot to be effective. Then the point blank head shot to the lady in the road basically missed. The second head shot only wounded her because she was able to talk and sit up afterwards.

The whole scene was disturbing yet pathetic.
 
Probably he didn't train but he had to fired a gun before. He was a Navy veteran if reports are correct; I believe it's always been part of their training to use a rife even though it's not part of their regular duties. At least it used to be that way. My dad served on a carrier in Vietnam, two tours. In boot he had to qualify with a rifle even though he ended up being an aircraft mechanic. Some vets can chime in but I imagine it's probably part of boot to this day.
 
We do not have neighbor problems as our closest neighbor is 3/8-1/2 of mile from us. Our residence is rural which has its good points. We are not originally from here which also has its good points. Also we keep to ourselves but we are polite when we come into contact with the local life long inhabitants'. With that said we are not part of feuds that life long resident's may be involved with. We were also selective of the church we attend which is not part of the local community. People know me to wave to as I walk a lot, as in miles. We've been here 25+ years with no problems to speak of.
 
Does anyone see blood?
Does anyone see smoke from muzzle?
Does anyone see any sort of fireball?

I did not.

Don't crucify me........I'm just asking.
 
Speaking of the accuracy/inaccuracy of the shooter and the lack of blood/flash/smoke...

My opinion from experiences, at least...

- even with good or evil intent, the best shooters can miss when stressed and aiming at a real being as opposed to paper at the range. Just because he's a cold murderer, doesn't mean physiology of stress completely vanishes.

- not all gunshots bleed right away and especially with handguns with certain ammo. I think it's actually eery in real life vs the movies when a small cut of a knife on a finger will gush but a gutshot can keep from bleeding for a few minutes

- crappy cameras can miss certain things, especially flash depending on frame rate. Surveillance cameras will not have movie quality frame rates.

- certain powders/ammo and even various guns will flash or not flash inconsistently, especially with the human eye or crappy cameras as above.
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
Probably he didn't train but he had to fired a gun before. He was a Navy veteran if reports are correct; I believe it's always been part of their training to use a rife even though it's not part of their regular duties. At least it used to be that way. My dad served on a carrier in Vietnam, two tours. In boot he had to qualify with a rifle even though he ended up being an aircraft mechanic. Some vets can chime in but I imagine it's probably part of boot to this day.
Click to expand...

It's not, at least not during the 90s. And when I was at Great Lakes, the pistol range was closed indefinitely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
BG with gun vs. twelve hunting dogs...
Replies
16
Views
831
trickyasafox
T
S
  • Locked
Police Officer shot, sword weilder injured, wife dead
Replies
23
Views
1K
444
4
S
  • Locked
Tips on Keeping Yourself and Your Loved Ones Safe in the Inner City
Replies
11
Views
996
thebaldguy
T
J
  • Locked
Father Ashcroft protects us from porn
2 3
Replies
63
Views
2K
Andrew Rothman
A
G
  • Locked
In Newark Murder, a Mixed Band of Men and Boys
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
revjen45
R
Back
Top