Springfield armory m1903 mark 1 pederson

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chuwee81 said:

hello gents. got a quick question. I saw a sporterized (monte carlo stock) 1903 with pederson device and red field ghost ring rear aperture. gun shop sells it for $595. is that a fair price?

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Are you saying it is a 1903 Mark I rifle cut for the Pedersen Device or that it actually has the device fitted?

The device is worth more than the asking price if the latter is the case.

The former? have to see the rifle but probably so.

Todd.

real Pedersen device? A few grand ......... but let's just say its just a sporterized 03 , $595 is a good deal.

I want to see it either way. Go buy it and post pictures.

ApacheCoTodd said:

Are you saying it is a 1903 Mark I rifle cut for the Pedersen Device or that it actually has the device fitted?

The device is worth more than the asking price if the latter is the case.

The former? have to see the rifle but probably so.

Todd.

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I believe there was a complete Pedersen device with magazine which sold for close to $100k several years ago.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...vice-w-two-magazines-metal-carrying-case-maga

A sporterized 1903Mk1 is worth $600- IF the barrel is uncut, there are no extra holes in the receiver (or other permanent mods), and it can be dropped back into a military stock. Otherwise, more like $350-450, IMO.

Most surviving Mk1s are only special for the markings and cutout in the receiver. They had the special trigger and other small parts removed when the devices were declared scrap and were refitted with standard guts.

I doubt they're selling a real pedersen device - he probably meant the receiver cutout.

The lever on the left side is the magazine cutoff selector, not a safety per se- it also allows for removal of the bolt. The actual safety is on the bolt.

As to whether that is a good price, we would honestly have to see the whole gun to assess how well it was "sporterized." These conversions range from professional grade to dangerously amateur.

They are good actions to base a custom rifle on- the Mk1s were built on double-heat treated receivers, unlike some earlier '03s- but the quality of the finish, stock, barrel, sights, scope mounting, and any other work would all have to be taken into account to determine if it is worth near that much.

Also, are you sure it is still chambered for the .30-06 cartridge? Sporterized guns were sometimes rebarrelled for different ammunition, including so-called "wildcat" cartridges which can be difficult (or impossible) to obtain today.

chuwee81 said:

gonna do some brake job and changing spark plugs for wife's car. thanks for info so far gents.

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Always good to build some credit before making a gun purchase. You’re a smart man.

My account is in arrears unfortunately. I need to bank some good will.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

I believe there was a complete Pedersen device with magazine which sold for close to $100k several years ago.

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I had a chance to buy an original Pedersen device for $5,000 in the mid-1970's. That was a lot of money in those days, and I really couldn't afford it, so I passed. To this day, I regret that. I should have gone into debt to buy it.

I had a Mark I Springfield which I refitted with the Pedersen device modifications. Later I sold that, for about what a standard M1903 would go for.

Today, a Pedersen device would sell for anywhere from $25,000 to $50,000 (hard to tell because there are no comparable sales). I think $100,000 is too high.

The web and leather accoutrements (magazine pouches, device holsters, rifle bolt pouches) used to be plentiful and dirt cheap. Even those are hard to find nowadays.

AlexanderA said:

I had a chance to buy an original Pedersen device for $5,000 in the mid-1970's. That was a lot of money in those days, and I really couldn't afford it, so I passed. To this day, I regret that. I should have gone into debt to buy it.

I had a Mark I Springfield which I refitted with the Pedersen device modifications. Later I sold that, for about what a standard M1903 would go for.

Today, a Pedersen device would sell for anywhere from $25,000 to $50,000 (hard to tell because there are no comparable sales). I think $100,000 is too high.

The web and leather accoutrements (magazine pouches, device holsters, rifle bolt pouches) used to be plentiful and dirt cheap. Even those are hard to find nowadays.

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And the ammunition.........its very close to (still uncommon) .30 French Longue, but not sure if that stuff will actually feed through a Pedersen.

Well, here's what the real thing looks like. They were made by Remington and 65,000 were manufactured before the war ended. In the twenties the army destroyed 64,873 of them, leaving 127 still in existence. We can only speculate (and grind our teeth) as to why the army didn't just sell them as surplus. They go at auction for well up into five figures. There are reportedly a few examples made for the 1917 Enfields and even a possible few for Mosin-Nagants. I have not seen any of these latter two surface. PDs are not an NFA item. They can be owned without any extra paperwork. They turn a 1903 into a 40 shot semi-automatic rifle.

chuwee81 said:

Also it is in 30.06. gun store guy put a snap cap in there and it chambered it.

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Well, yes, and no.
A .30-06 snap cap will fit a number of not-exactly 30-06 chamberings.
The snap cap only tells us it not smaller than 30-06 (generally).
it will probably need a chamber casting just to be sure.

chuwee81 said:

thanks for the info again gents. and yes I see that the tag was probably meant pederson device cut receiver or some sort. I put the rifle on

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chuwee81 said:

aw geez. I'll see if the guy has a go, no-go gauge next time I make payment.

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Has it had the barrel replaced?

A custom barrel should, theoretically, have the chambering marked on it somewhere, but sometimes the stock will have to be removed to find it.

If its the original barrel, it is most likely still .30-06.

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, argh.

tark said:

There are reportedly a few examples made for the 1917 Enfields and even a possible few for Mosin-Nagants. I have not seen any of these latter two surface.

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Apparently, the prototype Pedersen Device for the M1917 Enfield was the Mark II and the one for the Mosin was the Mark III. If any of these turn up it would be miraculous. The reason for having one for the Enfield was obvious, since Enfields outnumbered Springfields in U.S. service. The reason for a Mosin Pedersen Device is less obvious. Remington and New England Westinghouse produced thousands of Mosins for the Russian government. When the Russians defaulted on the contracts after the Russian Revolution, the U.S. took over the guns. They were used for training and also to arm the U.S. expeditions to North Russia and Vladivostok. (50,000 were earmarked for the Czech Legion fighting its way out of Russia.) Later they were sold to NRA members for $3 apiece.