Why Doesn't Cabela's Ship BP guns?

Loyalist Dave said:

But that classification of a cap-n-ball revolver is NOT true in every state....,

What you are hearing is old law, still being repeated, because Socialist Damocrats don't care about factual accuracy.

Back in the 1990's, when I first started as an LEO, the fact that Convicted Persons including Felons, were prohibited from firearm possession, and the fact that cap-n-ball revolver repros were in the legal category of "antique firearms"...,convicted persons were not prohibited their use. Nor were they prohibited the use of muzzleloading rifle and shotgun repros that copied antique designs.

Because the legal threshold was at that time, and still is "Have you been convicted of any crime where you could have been sentenced to more than 12 months in prison?" This phrase includes misdemeanors that have a possible penalty of more than 12 months in jail, AND for folks living on the East Coast in one of the original 13 colonies such as Maryland where I am..., Common Law.

So fellows charged with Domestic Battery were constantly pleading guilty to the lesser charge of Common Law-simple assault, which only required the person "putting the victim in fear", not actually striking the victim. It wasn't a felony, and the judge would not give incarceration as a sentence...,

BUT the judge COULD HAVE given more than 12 months incarceration. Which meant that anybody who plead to this Common Law charge then lost the ability to legally buy a modern firearm, and had to surrender his already owned firearms to the court or to the police.

So there were guys who had plead to this charge decades in the past, with the former wife now long gone, and had never been in trouble since, BUT they were limited to hunting with muzzleloaders and if they wanted a self-defense firearm they had to use some sort of black powder repro.

Well this changed when the Feds included that folks convicted of a crime where the sentence could be more than 12 months, cannot possess "ammunition or ammunition components". So possession of black powder or a substitute is a "component" as far as my state is concerned, and thus the updated Federal version of the law prohibits all those convicted of possession a loaded muzzleloader or cap-n-ball revolver. This doesn't stop a convicted criminal from using such a gun, but then again a lot of them are using air-soft handguns, so...,

So in every state..., the person who was convicted of a crime with a possible sentence of more than 12 months cannot possess the ammo nor ammo components. Period.

I know a few fellows who said, "I'll take my chances", and others who switched to bow-hunting, but the majority gave up their black powder stuff.

LD

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gtrgy888 said:

I recommend asking the Sheriff in your area, since they’ll be the ones authorizing warrants against you on the legal technicalities of your hobby. I consulted the Sheriff of my county who was very clear that blackpowder revolvers fall under the definition of a handgun as federally defined, even if they are not yet defined as firearms

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SixteenGauge said:

Federal law does not prohibit people convicted of state misdemeanors where you could have been imprisoned for 2 years or less. Says so in no uncertain terms on page 4 of the federal form 4473. As to the actual federal law 18 USC 921 A 20
"(20)The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include—
State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or
State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less."

According to Maryland laws, their sentancing for common-law assault is "Shall not exceed 10 years" hence why his firearms were confiscated.

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Loyalist Dave said:

Alas,
Even Law Enforcement doesn't necessarily understand the laws as they are written.

So "consulting" the local person who is authorized to enforce the law, does not mean that you will get a) accurate information, and b) if you are told something that is incorrect, your breaking of a law because a law enforcement officer, even if it was the local chief of police, does NOT shield you from the consequences of the breaking of that law should you be prosecuted.

BECAUSE in the case you cite above..., your source is woefully incorrect as cap-n-ball revolvers NOT fall under the Federal definition of "handgun". Because according to the actual wording of the law, the item as defined must FIRST be a "firearm", and remain in that category, and since cap-n-ball revolvers are placed into the subcategory of "antique firearm" , then the rest of the criteria in the definition of "handgun" are moot, and do not apply.
Your source's rank is irrelevant.


Title 18 U.S. Code § 921

(16)The term "antique firearm" means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed annumition,

(29)The term "handgun" means— (A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand;


LD

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gtrgy888 said:

As correct as you likely are, consulting the law enforcement in your area DOES predict how likely you are to face significant legal headaches if you undertake certain actions including incarceration and appealing to the Supreme Court when the ambiguities of your case demand a more definitive and historic resolution.

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Loyalist Dave said:

But that classification of a cap-n-ball revolver is NOT true in every state....,

What you are hearing is old law, still being repeated, because Socialist Damocrats don't care about factual accuracy.

Back in the 1990's, when I first started as an LEO, the fact that Convicted Persons including Felons, were prohibited from firearm possession, and the fact that cap-n-ball revolver repros were in the legal category of "antique firearms"...,convicted persons were not prohibited their use. Nor were they prohibited the use of muzzleloading rifle and shotgun repros that copied antique designs.

Because the legal threshold was at that time, and still is "Have you been convicted of any crime where you could have been sentenced to more than 12 months in prison?" This phrase includes misdemeanors that have a possible penalty of more than 12 months in jail, AND for folks living on the East Coast in one of the original 13 colonies such as Maryland where I am..., Common Law.

So fellows charged with Domestic Battery were constantly pleading guilty to the lesser charge of Common Law-simple assault, which only required the person "putting the victim in fear", not actually striking the victim. It wasn't a felony, and the judge would not give incarceration as a sentence...,

BUT the judge COULD HAVE given more than 12 months incarceration. Which meant that anybody who plead to this Common Law charge then lost the ability to legally buy a modern firearm, and had to surrender his already owned firearms to the court or to the police.

So there were guys who had plead to this charge decades in the past, with the former wife now long gone, and had never been in trouble since, BUT they were limited to hunting with muzzleloaders and if they wanted a self-defense firearm they had to use some sort of black powder repro.

Well this changed when the Feds included that folks convicted of a crime where the sentence could be more than 12 months, cannot possess "ammunition or ammunition components". So possession of black powder or a substitute is a "component" as far as my state is concerned, and thus the updated Federal version of the law prohibits all those convicted of possession a loaded muzzleloader or cap-n-ball revolver. This doesn't stop a convicted criminal from using such a gun, but then again a lot of them are using air-soft handguns, so...,

So in every state..., the person who was convicted of a crime with a possible sentence of more than 12 months cannot possess the ammo nor ammo components. Period.

I know a few fellows who said, "I'll take my chances", and others who switched to bow-hunting, but the majority gave up their black powder stuff.

LD

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webrx said:

I have a couple of questions,
1. since it is legal to ship BP firearms to Ohio, and there is no Background check required for BP either walking into a store or via mail, how exactly "should the employee have known they were violating state law by selling to a felon? Brady Lawyer argument - "that store employees should have known they were violating state law against selling guns to a prohibited firearm possessor when they sold a replica 1858 Army .44-caliber black powder revolver "

2. If a felon walks into a store in Ohio and buys a BP gun, what is the employee supposed to do, refuse to sell because he "looks like a felon"? How does he make him prove he is not? What if refuses to sell, and he is not, and then calls in his lawyer due to stereotyping or some other protected class violation? Which is the bigger lawsuit?

Everyone knows (or should) that criminals tend not to follow the law, and some may even fib a little. The crime was committed by the felon, who knowing he was not allowed to do so, bought a BP firearm, not the store employee who sold a BP gun, to a guy that wanted to buy one.

I wonder sometimes when we are going to put the blame and restrictions on the ones that break the law, and not the law abiding citizens.

I'll shut up now and hope I didn’t violate any rules. Feel free to delete this post if I did. Sorry.

d

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Ugly Sauce said:

. You know, leave ATV tracks leading into the forest, and build a blind at the end of them...just a trail a blind (!!!) man could follow. !!!! Who would have thought? Fooled me. Never did hear what happened when they caught them. The Warden seemed to have a good idea of who it was. Kind of, "oh yeah...those guys again".

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