Call for Action: Remington Police Reproduction!

Nice, about time others are jumping on the bandwagon. I'll credit duelist1954 for the video he posted recently on youtube gaining exposure for the Remington Police and why it's worthy of being reproduced by Pietta and/or Uberti.

I'm sick of the .36 repros (the Uberti 1862's aside) being put in revolvers sized for the .44 caliber; it makes the caliber almost worthless for any carrying application given the size and weight of the guns for a smaller caliber, yet more ergonomic and powerful than the .31 pocket model.

I'll be sending Pietta an email. It makes little sense that they make a Patterson repro, but not a New Model Police. Can't imagine the Patterson would sell more than an NMP.

How much will it cost for them to tool up for this frame configuration and smaller 5 shot cylinder ? Has the Remington Police model ever been reproduced in it's original size by any of the Italian reproduction companies the reason I ask is if not it would be a new reproduction of an untested design both commercially and mechanically as far as using modern means to make it. I do know they can make it. How much commitment required depends on how many of those murphy's law bugs pop up.

It seems that the Uberti Pocket models require more precision due to their overall smaller size and smaller component's and it's not unheard of for the current CNC produced models to need work while other larger frame CNC produced produced revolvers almost always work flawlessly out the box with great fit and finish.

I would buy one because it would be neat but it's not something I am super interested in.

I would be SUPER DUPER LOOPER interested in a true, correctly sized Remington Navy .36 caliber 6 shot revolver. Uberti already makes a not-correctly sized one that is pretty popular so I doubt they have much incentive to change. I would also be very interested in a correctly sized Belt Model.

There are older Remington .36's on the used market that have a smaller frame even if they're not 5 shot revolvers.
The Euroarms .36 Remngton in particular are known for having a smaller frame, grip, less width and lighter weight than both Uberti and Pietta .36's.

Interesting. Last night I was watching a dvd episode of the old Gene Barry series BAT MASTERSON. In it one character drew a smallish revolver on Masterson (this was NEVER a good idea regardless of gun size) and at first it looked like a Colt open top style. Upon freeze framing and magnifying the image it turned out to be one of those small Remington police guns as in JCooperfan1911's photo. In the tv show the one was either nickel or silver plated and there appeared to be bullets in the chambers on the right side of the gun. It also apparently had a cartridge converted cylinder .... but detail wasn't great and this might be wrong.
Colt Peacemakers were so ubiquitous in the late 1950s - early 1960s it was interesting seeing another style gun ..... and a coincidence that I get on this forum and here we are talking about it.

And yes, I'd LOVE a Italian clone of this revolver!!!!!

JCooperfan1911 said:

So far they are only making the very large and fairly hefty Army size (which I love) and the extremely tiny, tough to shoot and weak (though nifty don’t get me wrong) Pocket guy.

I think the Belt (also called the Rider size) which is a 6-shot .36 revolver even a bit smaller than the Navy size, or the Police sized 5-shooter .36, are prime candidates. They’d be so easy to carry and strong. Lots of modern shooters (myself included) like the Remington for their strength and simplicity, better sights, lack of barrel wedge etc.

it was just a one off thought I had this afternoon and frankly the Italians have been stagnant. I think they’d sell if they could be convinced to offer them. Pietta is all modernized and CNC so it could be done.

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Realistically, Pietta has trouble meeting current demand.
They can't even produce the Starr and the Paterson models which are only offered intermittently.
There's also a lot of demand for the Rogers & Spencer yet they don't bother to produce one.

They wouldn't be producing as many models as they do now if it weren't for the fact that so many share common frames.
To make a new smaller frame for a 5 or 6 shot could reduce sales of their current Remington .36, which wouldn't seem to be in their best interest.
And then if people wanted conversion cylinders for a 5 shot C&B, are they going to make a 4 shot conversion cylinder for them?
4 shot conversion cylinders and 5 shot C&B cylinders would eliminate cowboy action shooters from buying them for use in competition.

I like the idea of a smaller 36 caliber gun and would probably buy one but like articap said they have their plate full now just trying to get the standard offerings back on the shelves.

Someone around here posted a picture of an original 36 Police a while back and it sure made me want one. A 36 on the NMA makes no sense to me. Thats what I like about my Ruger Single Six in 32 magnum. It seems like the perfect size caliber for that frame size.

Good luck with your quest. I hope it works out. And like JCFan I like the Remington design much better than the Colt open tops.

grter said:

How much will it cost for them to tool up for this frame configuration and smaller 5 shot cylinder? Has the Remington Police model ever been reproduced in it's original size by any of the Italian reproduction companies the reason I ask is if not it would be a new reproduction of an untested design both commercially and mechanically as far as using modern means to make it. I do know they can make it. How much commitment required depends on how many of those murphy's law bugs pop up.

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See below.

arcticap said:

Realistically, Pietta has trouble meeting current demand.They can't even produce the Starr and the Paterson models which are only offered intermittently. There's also a lot of demand for the Rogers & Spencer yet they don't bother to produce one.

They wouldn't be producing as many models as they do now if it weren't for the fact that so many share common frames.
To make a new smaller frame for a 5 or 6 shot could reduce sales of their current Remington .36, which wouldn't seem to be in their best interest.
And then if people wanted conversion cylinders for a 5 shot C&B, are they going to make a 4 shot conversion cylinder for them?

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Who would make one? Not the factory.

4 shot conversion cylinders and 5 shot C&B cylinders would eliminate cowboy action shooters from buying them for use in competition.

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Absolutely.

IMHO, it is all about marketing and the bean counters at Pietta. The pandemic in Italy has put both Pietta and Uberti over a year behind in production with current offerings. When they get caught up with production insofar as back orders from US distributors, it will be a long way down the road.

I think it is noble of you folks to think that an email campaign to produce that revolver will have any effect. Even if two or three dozen of you start an email campaign to get Pietta to produce one, I would bet that I would win the lottery before that happens. There is just no demand marketwise to CNC retool for it.

Regards,

Jim

JCooperfan1911 said:

We are starting a campaign to have the Remington .36 caliber Police model revolver reproduced by the Pietta company of Italy. Here are some photos of original guns:

View attachment 982895
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This 5-shot medium caliber revolver would fit beautifully between the large and heavy .44 Army sized guns and the tiny .31 caliber Pocket models. Would make a great packing pistol! Show your support by emailing Pietta at [email protected]

Together we can make this happen! Thanks!

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Done and done. Maybe tilting at windmills but what the heck...

TTv2 said:

Nice, about time others are jumping on the bandwagon. I'll credit duelist1954 for the video he posted recently on youtube gaining exposure for the Remington Police and why it's worthy of being reproduced by Pietta and/or Uberti.

I'm sick of the .36 repros (the Uberti 1862's aside) being put in revolvers sized for the .44 caliber; it makes the caliber almost worthless for any carrying application given the size and weight of the guns for a smaller caliber, yet more ergonomic and powerful than the .31 pocket model.

I'll be sending Pietta an email. It makes little sense that they make a Patterson repro, but not a New Model Police. Can't imagine the Patterson would sell more than an NMP.

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I'm with you, I have often wondered why they have never done so in the past. However...!!! Even though the New Model Army is a big platform for a .36", it certainly is not almost worthless for carrying. Mine weighs 42.5 ounces fully loaded. That is a manageable weight. I carry mine most of the time/more than any of my other pistols when hunting, and I range far and wide, and all day in the wilderness. Something that makes up for the heft is that the New Model Army cylinder, bored for .36", makes for a very long chamber. The "ratio" of powder to bore size is good. (I just made that up) Shooting a slug, with a full charge of powder in a .36 with that long chamber produces a pretty good punch. It certainly is not a pop-gun, as some think of the .36". Actually, a .36 on the New Model Army frame is kind of a ".360 Magnum". !!!!

grter said:

How much will it cost for them to tool up for this frame configuration and smaller 5 shot cylinder ? Has the Remington Police model ever been reproduced in it's original size by any of the Italian reproduction companies the reason I ask is if not it would be a new reproduction of an untested design both commercially and mechanically as far as using modern means to make it. I do know they can make it. How much commitment required depends on how many of those murphy's law bugs pop up.

It seems that the Uberti Pocket models require more precision due to their overall smaller size and smaller component's and it's not unheard of for the current CNC produced models to need work while other larger frame CNC produced produced revolvers almost always work flawlessly out the box with great fit and finish.

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The biggest issue is they would need another CNC to machine the frame and that alone is 100 grand at a minimum. Add on the other parts that would need to be specific to the Police such as the trigger guard, loading lever, cylinder pin, possibly even the hammer (they may be able to use the Pocket model's hammer) they would need machines, space, and people.

I would say at least half a million, maybe 1 million. How many of these 5 shot .36 percussion guns would they sell? I think every single one they make.

IDK why Pietta ever decided to make the .31 caliber pocket instead of the Police, the Police is a better and easier to shoot gun.

When it comes time to pony up 1250 to 2500 buyers at $400.00 dollars each to cover start up costs things will get interesting, won't they. If you can get that many buyers to pre-order maybe they will listen but I figure people will complain about the price and talk about great bargains and better deals they can get elsewhere for other guns.

Don't get me wrong I am all for this if it can be done.

Whats funny about this thread is that just a short time ago the OP called the .36 a weak or pointless round in this thread.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pietta-36-cap-and-ball.883958/#post-11838333

There were so many comments about that statement that the Mod removed all of them. I am surprised he now wants a .36 caliber gun.

From a fellow’s testing with his .36 using energetic powders and short for caliber custom bullets found that 20 grns of 3F (Olde E or Swiss IIRC) pushing a 110 grn bullet provided about 180 ft/lbs from a 6.5” barrel. That’s low end .380 ACP performance levels and about max for what any of these little .36 cal pockets along with the Spiller & Burr can provide.

The original Remington Police model was made with 4 different length barrels: 3 1/2", 4 1/2", 5 1/2", 6 1/2".

Sort of like the Pietta/Traditions 1873 percussion revolver which was made with a lot of different barrel lengths from 4.75" up to 9.25" and 11.25".
Pietta doesn't seem to be producing many of them either.

I would definitely like one.

Pietta makes an 1860 .36 snub nose, fluted with birdshead grips.
It has a 3" barrel.


https://www.wholesalehunter.com/Product/Details/11231960?fs=1
It's also made in .44.

From watching Duelist1954s video on 19 century police guns it seems the only official (in the US) issue pocket percussion gun was the Colt .31 cal pocket model (Baltimore.) In a lot of other police departments officers purchased their own and often had a preference for the more powerful guns. Many if not most departments did not allow the use of firearms.

It seems that the pocket police models were designed by Colt and Remington to be carried hidden by police with a desire to keep themselves among the living who worked in departments that didn't allow them to carry firearms.

He did not say that in his videos however I get the impression that is what these small .36 caliber pocket guns were marketed for.

How to convince these companies to make reproductions of them? I don't know.

The era of police issue percussion guns did not last very long and departments everywhere soon chose cartridge guns usually in the .32 to .38 S&W caliber range most as their first issue firearms and other departments as replacements. That is the impression I get from watching Mikes videos.

I believe that the .36 cal pocket models represent the last evolution in cap and ball guns but cartridges were right around the corner so they did not have time to gain popularity and as such production did not last as long.

rodwha said:

From a fellow’s testing with his .36 using energetic powders and short for caliber custom bullets found that 20 grns of 3F (Olde E or Swiss IIRC) pushing a 110 grn bullet provided about 180 ft/lbs from a 6.5” barrel. That’s low end .380 ACP performance levels and about max for what any of these little .36 cal pockets along with the Spiller & Burr can provide.

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The soft lead used in the projectiles will deform some in the body, but mostly they just poke holes. I'll take a .36 over a .31 everyday tho because conical molds for the .36 are widely available and with a round ball the .375 balls do the same thing as .315 balls do on small game.

Not saying the .36's are better than .44's, but they certainly have their use when combined with a smaller, lighter revolver.

Oh, and Triple 7 is the way to go if you want power.

I've used my .36" on grouse, with round ball, and there is very little meat-damage. But the same load also penetrates a deer or elk's skull, so for me it's a perfect side arm for hunting and trekking. I think, but I don't know, that a .44 ball would do more damage to small game than the .36". I don't think a .31 would do much, or noticeably less. ??

Ugly Sauce said:

I've used my .36" on grouse, with round ball, and there is very little meat-damage. But the same load also penetrates a deer or elk's skull, so for me it's a perfect side arm for hunting and trekking. I think, but I don't know, that a .44 ball would do more damage to small game than the .36". I don't think a .31 would do much, or noticeably less. ??

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.31 ball wouldn't penetrate as well, nor as straight. Also, I don't think the .31's are going to be near as accurate as .36's will be with the extra heft being able to buck wind better.

TTv2 said:

The soft lead used in the projectiles will deform some in the body, but mostly they just poke holes. I'll take a .36 over a .31 everyday tho because conical molds for the .36 are widely available and with a round ball the .375 balls do the same thing as .315 balls do on small game.

Not saying the .36's are better than .44's, but they certainly have their use when combined with a smaller, lighter revolver.

Oh, and Triple 7 is the way to go if you want power.

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Absolutely. I like to have Accurate Molds create my designs. I like a very wide meplat since expansion isn’t certain.

Outside of something like hogs they’d be fairly effective (when using an energetic powder). You should be able to get plenty of penetration and a larger than caliber permanent wound track. I’ve often thought a 4.5” Colt Police would make a nice handy little sidearm.

TTv2 said:

.31 ball wouldn't penetrate as well, nor as straight. Also, I don't think the .31's are going to be near as accurate as .36's will be with the extra heft being able to buck wind better.

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There may be truth to that. I don't know how accurate the .31's are, but this 1862 I just got is like laser accurate. And certainly the .36" is going to do better on wabbits.