Put the grease under the ball

It is quicker and easier (maybe neater) to put a well lubed felt wad between the powder and ball. I make my own to ensure they are sufficiently lubed.

Jeff

What's wrong with corn meal?

kell said:

Put your Crisco under the ball and it's not so messy.

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You know what’s even less messy? Lubed felt wad.
You put crisco right on the powder??

From my own experience, I try to keep any extra lube to a minimum. I use a lightly lubed felt wad that I make between the ball and the powder. More importantly, I use a correctly sized ball that produces a small circle of lead at the mouth of the chamber when seated. I’ve never had any sort of “chain fire” or dangerous malfunction and I’ve been shooting BP revolvers for some time.

I bought a supply of felt, a 10mm hollow punch, beeswax, Crisco and lanolin. I can make lubed felt wads cheaply. They are easy to use and less messy than sealing the chambers with lube.

I stay away from crisco. That stuff turns into glue once its been heated up and cooled. Unlike natural oils and tallows that go back to their original form. The crisco when melted gets into all the nooks and cranies of the gun...such as screw threads. I have had quite a few guns sent to me that had difficult screws to remove...not fron rust...but from crisco. Although everyone is free to use whatever they like...ilike...i wont use crisco and strongly advise friends and customers from using it. Tallow, pure lanolin, and some cooking oils work best. I used to use felt wads but now only use lube disks. They are thin disks i make...reason for them is because they take up less of the already limited chamber space. Because they are thin they desintegrate and melt almost instantly when a chamber is fired and it lubes the arbor and inside the barrel where its needed most. When you use a lubed felt wad...its so thick that most of the lube is shot out with the felt wad. Some will say that the felt helps scrape out fouling...and i feel it can too...but i also use an over powder card (made from cereal box cardboard, milk carton, or paper plate that has one side waxed/sealed to make it water/oil proof) and it does the same. So my loads are powder, wax paper disk (optional, and can be substituted with a card instead), lube disk, thin card disk, then bullet. When the round is fired the thin lube disk is melted and will push against the card disk and seal along the edges and preventing gas cutting. Creates a perfect seal behind the bullet. The other benefit of using a thin lube disk is that you can use a stiffer lube that wont contaminate powder but is thin enough to melt easier than a thick lube wad. You want the lube to melt as much as possible to coat the inside of barrel to keep fouling soft...but the problem with that is softer lubes contaminate powder...so in order not to contaminate powder you need a stiffer lube..but stiffer lubes dont melt as easy or fast enough to coat the inside of thw barrel...which is why making it a thin disk allows a stiffer lube to melt easier and faster. I make different lube mixes but my most common is 1:3 ratio of mutton tallow to wax by weight. I premix and prepare the lube first and store it. To make my disks i first get a bread pan with the bottom that is sized 4x8 inches...then cut a paper towel to the same exact 4x8 inches. I place the paper towel inside the pan and then place it on my stove burner on number 1 or low...then i put 22 grams of my pre-mixed lube inside the pan and wait for it to melt and be absorbed by the paper towel. Once fully absorbed i remove the pan from the heat and let it cool. Once cooled i pop out the lube "sheet" and then cut disks. Ill post a couple pics of what it looks like.

I’ve ruined a whole cylinder of powder using that exact logic and needed to dribble powder under the cones to clear the chambers. Over ball lube is more sensible and doesn’t rob velocity from an already anemic weapon. The mess is a good thing because it lubes the arbor and gives a good incentive to properly clean the weapon after each shoot.

I've used commercial cardboard wads cut in half to decrease the thickness. Then I apply some corn oil with an eye dropper to one side and place the dry side on top of the powder. It's time consuming but it works.

Yup definitely a different strokes for different folks sorta thing. Whatever works. I use 1/8 felt wads 50/50 crisco/beeswax. Many thousands of rounds both percussion and bp cartridge. Works for me. I do however dismantle the revolvers for an in depth cleaning on a regular basis so can’t speak to the Crisco glued screws.
As an amateur cook I can attest to the fact that any oil derived from plants will become a sticky cooked on mess on metal cook ware. So logic would suggest it would do the same for cap guns.

whughett said:

As an amateur cook I can attest to the fact that any oil derived from plants will become a sticky cooked on mess on metal cook ware.

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I use unsalted lard in place of the Crisco and haven't had problems.

Patocazador said:

I use unsalted lard in place of the Crisco and haven't had problems.

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As close to “bear grease” as the average Joe can get to authentic 18/19th century lube.
I’d like to try Lambs Tallow just hate to spend the money. Crisco or lard is so cheap and readily available.

I have a buddy who puts powder, then home made card (he uses milk carton or water/oil/grease proof paper plate), then puts a soft lube the consistency of bore butter...maybe a little thicker...he rolls it up into a little ball about the size of one of them air soft B.B.'s and drops it right on top of the card, then he puts another card on top and then bullet. Basically makes a lube cookie. He swears by it..but he lives in a cold area so soft lubes work great for him. I live in a super hot and humid area so stiff lubes are a necessity. I like my guns to stay as clean as possible so i never put lube over the ball/bullet, especially a really soft lube. I also keep my guns clean by adjusting my cylinder gaps to only be .002-.004, preferably .002-.003. It keeps less fouling away from escaping from that area and getting the gun dirty. When i shoot my guns they keep running with no stuck/sluggish cylinder and have very little fouling all over it. I attribute this to my method of lube and also the tight cylinder gap. Youd be suprised how much gas and fouling can escape from a larger cylinder gap. I also dont depend too much on my lube disks to lube my arbor...which the disks lube well...but i depend more on a good arbor lube. I make my own custom lube that i also place on the guns i work on...some folks seem to like it. Its important to use a very good arbor lube to keep your cylinder spinng and not depend on your bullet lube to do the job. Some folks use bore butter but i stay away from putting a wax lube mix directly on the arbor, you want an oil and one that makes your cylinder spin freely as if on bearings. Olive and canola oil work in a pinch, so does Pam cooking spray. But personally i make my own custom mix. Even full synthetic oil can work (about 3 drops is all you need), but use it sparingly as a little goes a long way and if you put too much it gets everywhere..its designed to seap into every nook and cranny.

gtrgy888 said:

I’ve ruined a whole cylinder of powder using that exact logic and needed to dribble powder under the cones to clear the chambers. Over ball lube is more sensible and doesn’t rob velocity from an already anemic weapon. The mess is a good thing because it lubes the arbor and gives a good incentive to properly clean the weapon after each shoot.

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The mess does nothing but make a mess IME. I’ve fired over 100 shots each through 2 1860s without relubing the arbor or pulling the wedge or adding any oil; just using powder/lubed felt wad/ball and both were still running fine and hitting accurately when I got bored with the tests. For me, there is no reason to use any goopy/ sticky/ messy grease or lube over or under the ball if you’re using LFW.

if you look closely in slow motion at what actually happens to the lube over the ball when the previous chamber is fired you’ll understand why it gets everywhere and makes a huge mess. Most of it is blown off the front of the next charge hole by the previous shot.

If i use an under ball/bullet lube such as a lube disk or lubed felt wad...i always put a barrier between the powder and the lube disk/felt wad...that way no powder is contaminated. I dont like wasting any powder and when you place a lube disk/felt wad directly on top of powder...the powder gets stuck to it and absorbs oil/lube. Sometimes when you fire a round and search for the felt wad you will see unburnt powder on it.. Even though its only about a grain or two..to me its a waste and shows a contamination of powder and over time it can contaminate the entire powder in the chamber. This is why i always seperate my powder from lube disk using a wax paper disk or a card...and i also use a card between lube and bullet because the lube can stick to the back of the bullet and cause accuracy issues.

I had thought about using some of the dental wax sheets I just got a few weeks ago off Ebay. Soft wax gas checks were a discussed and suggested item a couple of decades ago. I admit I have never loaded a round with them. But the gunzines reported good results using them in smokeless cases. Here is a thread I started in the reloading section. Scroll down and read the letters I added. And these will not melt and contaminate your BP powder charge.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/wax-gas-checks.880823/

So, get a disc cutter for standard every day old wax paper, the same as in the kitchen? Where do you find cutters in the right size? Same for cereal box rings - the wife eats a ton of cereal and we throw away a lot of boxes.
Supplemental question - I use Muzzleloader Original center lubed felt wads, and I cannot get them to go flat into the chamber for the life of me. I know they are twisted over. With a disc of wax paper that might work better, you think? This being something that works well, a product consisting of a felt lubed wad sandwiched and sealed between two slightly over size layers of wax paper might be a seller.
When I first started with black powder MANY years ago with a .31 Baby Dragoon clone that was very poorly made, (visible casting void on the hammer itself), and I was young and stupid, all I used was a well fitted ball with the distinctive shaved ring, and powder, nothing else. I had no idea then, and barely any now as I get back into the sport so many decades later.

armoredman said:

I was young and stupid, all I used was a well fitted ball with the distinctive shaved ring, and powder, nothing else.

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Nothing wrong with that at all, if you’re only going to shoot a couple three cylinders full between cleanings. Nobody used LFW or grease over the ball in the old days. Or very few people IMO.

I was lucky to get a doe a few yrs back that was laden with a heavy fat layer and I rendered almost a quart of deer tallow and have been mixing it 50/50 with bees wax and using it on felt from Durofelt and cutting it after soaking the sheets with a drill press, I'm real interested in the paper towel method though, cheaper is always better; if it works. I use the Harbor Freight cutter set, works for all my calibers from 31 to 50!

just like mr.rmr.robhof said....the harbor freight hole punch set is what i use. I only shoot .36 cal so i use the 3/8ths punch. I use it to cut out my lube disks and used to use it to punch out felt wads. But now i only use the felt on muzzleloader rifles. I cut the regular ol' kitchen wax paper and cereal box cardboard using a hole punch i got on amazon. Heres a link

https://www.amazon.com/EK-Tools-Cir...ywords=3/8th+hole+punch&qid=1616354153&sr=8-3

As for a .44 im not sure what size hole punch to use...you will have to look it up..but i know plenty of people are able to find a good size using the set from harbor freight.

armoredman said:

Supplemental question - I use Muzzleloader Original center lubed felt wads, and I cannot get them to go flat into the chamber for the life of me. I know they are twisted over. With a disc of wax paper that might work better, you think?

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If you watch some of the duelist1954 videos on YT he uses an ink pen or a dowel to make sure the wads are in the chamber straight.

Kid I think for .44 everyone is using a 7/16ths hole punch wich is a little undersized for the .451 ball. A 7/16s works out to .437. But I guess it works for those who use it. I made some paper wads like you like to use and they are just a little bit small in size. But a wax disc should flatten out on firing and spread the lube. Great idea on the lube soaked paper towels by the way.

I bought a sheet of felt from WM a couple of weeks ago and it was cheap. Like .30 cent IIRC. But I thought it was too thin to use so I gave it to my wife. After seeing Outlaws paper towel trick I may have to rethink this. That thin felt may have been about perfect. I will buy a couple more sheets next time I go. I have Crisco, beeswax and unsalted lard on hand already plud a punch set so making a bunch of disc would be easy.

TheOutlawKid said:

I place the paper towel inside the pan and then place it on my stove burner on number 1 or low...then i put 22 grams of my pre-mixed lube inside the pan and wait for it to melt and be absorbed by the paper towel.

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Thank you, OutlawKid!

I wish I'd thought of the cookie sheet method... I make a lube of beeswax, sheep tallow, and olive oil. To make lubed disks, I've been dipping felt or cotton cloth in the crockpot batch, picking it out with tongs, and spreading it out to cool on a makeshift rack... what a mess! Wet lube gets ever'whar!

I use the Harbor Freight punches (for now) as well. I think my lubed wad makin' days are gonna become a sight easier & neater hereafter.

windini said:

Thank you, OutlawKid!

I wish I'd thought of the cookie sheet method... I make a lube of beeswax, sheep tallow, and olive oil. To make lubed disks, I've been dipping felt or cotton cloth in the crockpot batch, picking it out with tongs, and spreading it out to cool on a makeshift rack... what a mess! Wet lube gets ever'whar!

I use the Harbor Freight punches (for now) as well. I think my lubed wad makin' days are gonna become a sight easier & neater hereafter.

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Ah yes i too made a huge mess trying to come up with a better method. So far my current method is my favorite and cleanest. Beeswax, sheep tallow, and olive oil sounds like a great mix. Right now i use a stiff lube...usually 1:3 of mutton tallow to beeswax or a stiff custom stiffer mix of gato feo #1 lube where i use all equal weights of mutton tallow, beeswax and paraffin wax ( 1:1:1 ratio). I use a stiff mix mainly because i live in deep south texas where its extremely hot all year...also to prevent powder contamination. I dont use a cookie sheet though...i use a bread pan. Mainly because it allows me to fit a paper towel perfectly fit to the bottom of the pan...also makes for smaller easier to handle sheets of lube....and you waste a lot less lube since the disks are so thin.