The M1 Garand Rifle - Why Is It, "Heavy"?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The clear bottom line is that @Garandimal is stuck in the 1950s and that is fine. What the Garand did before the M-4,AK-47 and various other modern rifles were invented is completely irrelevant to it modern application in a contest against those modern firearms. The Garand is defunct. It’s obsolete. It’s time has passed just as the Garand surpassed the 1903 Springfield. Man adapts and his weapons adapt. Man and machine have both become more efficient. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating the history of an old warhorse, but the world’s fighting forces have put it out to pasture because it is no longer a viable option. The OP realizes this, but he makes these posts ever so often just so members won’t forget about the M1 Garand... or him...
 
The clear bottom line is that @Garandimal is stuck in the 1950s and that is fine. What the Garand did before the M-4,AK-47 and various other modern rifles were invented is completely irrelevant to it modern application in a contest against those modern firearms. The Garand is defunct. It’s obsolete. It’s time has passed just as the Garand surpassed the 1903 Springfield. Man adapts and his weapons adapt. Man and machine have both become more efficient. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating the history of an old warhorse, but the world’s fighting forces have put it out to pasture because it is no longer a viable option. The OP realizes this, but he makes these posts ever so often just so members won’t forget about the M1 Garand... or him...

I still found value in it, but maybe to the irritation of many other members.:confused:


Not sure how guys feel about this but I actually reached out to a stranger today because of this thread:

https://ibb.co/TLCG8Gm
TLCG8Gm
 
Last edited:
I still found value in it, but maybe to the irritation of many other members.:confused:


Not sure how guys feel about this but I actually reached out to a stranger today because of this thread:

https://ibb.co/TLCG8Gm
TLCG8Gm
Value can be found in any post if you look for it. Nothing wrong with taking away some good from a post that irritates others. I found value in it too, but when someone starts basing their argument that a firearm is not out-dated based on an interview conducted with a man whom last used it in the 1950s, it becomes pretty clear that the point of the post is about stirring the pot.
 
Value can be found in any post if you look for it. Nothing wrong with taking away some good from a post that irritates others. I found value in it too, but when someone starts basing their argument that a firearm is not out-dated based on an interview conducted with a man whom last used it in the 1950s, it becomes pretty clear that the point of the post is about stirring the pot.

It could be. I could also just be extremely tone deaf on this forum so maybe it's just over my head.

They're neat rifles. I ordered my CMP Garand many years ago and will never sell it.


Like I said I'm thinking of getting one now. Are they pieces of junk? Is it parts gun? $750 seems shallow for something this cool but i'm trying to keep an open mind.
 
The descriptions on the CMP page should be accurate. You'll know exactly what you're getting. Availability is not what it once was, but they are good about telling you what to expect out of what they have.
 
The descriptions on the CMP page should be accurate. You'll know exactly what you're getting. Availability is not what it once was, but they are good about telling you what to expect out of what they have.

Honestly I'm thinking about it, but I don't have a 30-06, so I'd have to stock up on a new caliber.

I actually don't have many firearms but a lot of my friends do so I'm trying to get into it. Garandimal might have won me over and maybe soon I'll be making these threads.
 
Geeeze, this thread is making my head spin.

Comparing the M1 Garand to current military rifles is like comparing 1930 vintage Auto Union Formula One race cars with World Champion Louis Hamilton’s 2020 Mecedes Formula One race car. Both cars were/are exceptional in their day but there is no comparison between them. Same with the rifles.

The M1 is a fantastic piece of history and I am pleased that I have several, but I also am pleased to have the civilian version (AR-15) of the current Military rifle, M16/M4.

As an aside, my 26” 204 Ruger praire dog AR-15 tips the scales at 12 pounds plus empty. Just a “smidge” heavier than an M1.
 
This comes off more as a high school argument between kids that know nothing about the subject they didn't learn from a movie. "Mine's better, no mine's better".

It's 2am and you hear glass breaking. Given a choice between the two, do you grab the Garand, or the AR? Why?

Reload speed does matter and for every single magazine in the AR, you're reloading the M1 multiple times. 3-5secs is a long time. Can you top off that Garand if you run it half dry?

The Garand is arguably better for targets at 500yds. In open spaces and broad daylight. How often are you doing that? Can you even see a human target and determine he needs to be shot at 500yds? Is he shooting at you? Is this the real world we're talking about here?

Can I put a suppressor on that Garand so I don't blow my eardrums out?

Can I put a light on it so I know not to shoot my neighbor's dog?

Can I put an optic on it so I can actually see my target? Or a red dot that I can use at night?
 
Reload speed does matter and for every single magazine in the AR, you're reloading the M1 multiple times. 3-5secs is a long time.

Agreed. I learned this shooting revolvers in competition against Glocks. I was losing 8-10 seconds every 6 shots. Over a 50 round course of fire, it adds up.

Can you top off that Garand if you run it half dry?

Actually, I can. (And the misconception that you can't is getting tiring.) You hit the clip latch button on the left side of the receiver and it ejects the clip and all remaining rounds, then you just reload another, full clip. This is no different than dropping the magazine of an AR and inserting another. (Except that you're recharging at 8 rounds instead of 30, which is a big deal-I get it.)

The Garand is arguably better for targets at 500yds. In open spaces and broad daylight. How often are you doing that?

Before the powder and primer crisis, every other week.

Can I put a suppressor on that Garand so I don't blow my eardrums out?

Can I put a light on it so I know not to shoot my neighbor's dog?

Can I put an optic on it so I can actually see my target? Or a red dot that I can use at night?

If you do, you should be charged with heresy and burned at the stake. And then hanged. And the pressed unto death with a large stone.
 
The fixation on the Garand is inevitably tied to WWII, which is pretty much modern America's founding myth. People on here are talking tech while OP is talking legend, or at least using legend as a motivator to argue tech. This thread's not really about 2 lbs of weight or 20 rounds of capacity, it's about defending the American Mjolnir from its non-believers.

Stripped of its WWII context, the Garand is a neat but kind of kludged together early self-loading rifle, whose biggest influence on later firearms development is probably getting its bolt and action stolen and used in the AK. Its closest non-military comparison IMO is the Remington Model 8, a rifle which everyone acknowledges is kind of cool and absolutely no one would go to bat for vs an AR-15.

But the Model 8 is wood and steel, while the Garand is story.
 
I was actually going to ask just this.

TBQH this thread is seriously making me consider picking up an M1A. I saw them on the link Garandimal posted but I fear what quality I would be getting for that price.
Personally, if I were looking for another M14 type rifle, I'd look to one of the other builders and not Springfield.

Springfields quality and QC was much better back in the 80's, early 90's, and they were still building guns with GI parts then. If you're looking for an M1A I'd look for an early "standard" model. I think that's going to be your best bet.
 
Firing from your fighting hole supporting the forearm of your rifle on sandbags?
Sure, if you have the opportunity. What happens everywhere else?

Learning to shoot from a bench only teaches you to shoot from a rest. There's a lot more to it than that.
 
Sure, if you have the opportunity. What happens everywhere else?

Learning to shoot from a bench only teaches you to shoot from a rest. There's a lot more to it than that.

Well you got me.
Good tactics would see me bracing shots from a doorway, a tree trunk, over the hood of a HUMMV &c.
Running out in the open hip firing isn't good tactics, firing from cover is better. obviously your movement would be under covering fire from your squad mates.
My gun club only allows rimfire at 50 yards to be shot standing. No prone or kneeling. And no running about shooting!
Where is your range that allows running about firing your rifle? I'd like to try some "spray firing from my hip" as a senator from CA once said.
 
Im not talking about running around "spray firing", although I do work on shooting while moving and a number of other things like that.

As with most things, there are "basics" in shooting. Offhand, sitting, kneeling, prone. They require things from you as much as you require things from the gun. Shooting is an athletic, living thing, and you need to be in some kind of reasonable shape, if you want to be reasonably well versed in it.

Using an improvised rest when available is of course perfectly sensible, but you need to be able to shoot without one too. The very best thing you can do for your shooting is to not shoot off a bench.

And then you have the more advanced skills, like shooting while moving, point shooting, snap shooting, etc. And most all of it requires you to actually learn and regularly practice these things to keep your skills up.

But when it comes down to it, the basics are your base. If you want to get a good dose of that, then find a club that has military or high power type matches and shoot a couple.
 
Interesting sling arrangement - what is the rationale behind the mount locations?

That is a typical method of slinging the XM177 E2 by the SOF bubbas in Nam. The Troy rifle included lots of good period stuff including that sling, history and instructions.
 
And they still eject when you hit the release button?




GR
If I recall (it's been a few years since I used one), you have to hit the button and squeeze the clip or use a common screwdriver. The modified clip is cut so there's a tang on one side to hold it in place. The clip allows the shooter to load individual rounds into the mag well without the clip being ejected.
 
Using an improvised rest when available is of course perfectly sensible, but you need to be able to shoot without one too. The very best thing you can do for your shooting is to not shoot off a bench..

You're not going to get many people to pay attention to this. The only thing I use a bench for is to find out which powder and bullet combination gives the best accuracy and after that I never use a bench. A bench is good for learning how to pull a trigger but it doesn't help much for anything but target shooting. I'm one of the very few riflemen at our range who don't use a bench. I may be the only one!
 
Last edited:
This comes off more as a high school argument between kids that know nothing about the subject they didn't learn from a movie. "Mine's better, no mine's better".

It's 2am and you hear glass breaking. Given a choice between the two, do you grab the Garand, or the AR? Why?

Reload speed does matter and for every single magazine in the AR, you're reloading the M1 multiple times. 3-5secs is a long time. Can you top off that Garand if you run it half dry?

The Garand is arguably better for targets at 500yds. In open spaces and broad daylight. How often are you doing that? Can you even see a human target and determine he needs to be shot at 500yds? Is he shooting at you? Is this the real world we're talking about here?

Can I put a suppressor on that Garand so I don't blow my eardrums out?

Can I put a light on it so I know not to shoot my neighbor's dog?

Can I put an optic on it so I can actually see my target? Or a red dot that I can use at night?


I don't think it's fair to classify the discourse going on here that way, but I will say I'm definitely with you that the M1 is not going to be my choice in that situation.

Honestly though, the AR-15 probably wouldn't be either.

I'm an AR guy and trained with that thing for years, but it's not the end all be all of weapons. If someone breaks into my house I'm honestly probably going to grab my 12 gauge. Call me old fashion but all the lights and stuff don't do it for me. I wouldn't even put anything on them besides maybe an eotech -- but I generally just shoot irons anyway.


I can think of a lot worse things, like being stuck in 2020. Indeed, of the past century, I'll take the 1950s thank you.

This made me laugh.

The fixation on the Garand is inevitably tied to WWII, which is pretty much modern America's founding myth. People on here are talking tech while OP is talking legend, or at least using legend as a motivator to argue tech. This thread's not really about 2 lbs of weight or 20 rounds of capacity, it's about defending the American Mjolnir from its non-believers.

Stripped of its WWII context, the Garand is a neat but kind of kludged together early self-loading rifle, whose biggest influence on later firearms development is probably getting its bolt and action stolen and used in the AK. Its closest non-military comparison IMO is the Remington Model 8, a rifle which everyone acknowledges is kind of cool and absolutely no one would go to bat for vs an AR-15.

But the Model 8 is wood and steel, while the Garand is story.

This is probably the wisest quote in the entire thread. Not surprising this community unfortunately gave it no attention.

You're not going to get many people to pay attention to this. The only thing I use a bench for is to find out which powder and bullet combination gives the best accuracy and after that I never use a bench. A bench is good for learning how to pull a trigger but it doesn't help much for anything but target shooting. I'm one of the very few riflemen at our range who don't use a bench. I may be the only one!

I know the feeling. :)


I also don't shoot from the bench unless it's to sight in a rifle. Otherwise I shoot almost exclusively standing or (more commonly) kneeling / from the prone.
 
Learning to shoot from a bench only teaches you to shoot from a rest. There's a lot more to it than that.

People get addicted to shooting from a bench just like an addiction to alcohol, smoking and drugs and they enjoy it because it works. It's a crutch that keeps them from learning how to use a rifle. I pride myself at being able to be walking along with only my rifle and shooting stick and in a moment's notice be able to get an aimed shot off at 200 meters in less than 10 seconds. I know how to shoot out of un-level ground and in tall grass, brush and weeds. It takes a lot of experience and practice.
 
Thats one thing with shooting the M1's where the weight is a positive, shooting offhand. That weight helps you hold them nice and steady. :)

Offhand is always the weakest for me, and the one I shoot the most. I also find it the most challenging and fun, no matter how youre doing it.

Shooting requires muscle tone, and if you don't keep it up, things just become so much harder. And especially so with things like the M1's, M14's, etc, where there is a bit more weight involved.

You so often hear how great the guns are, but what makes them great is the shooter, and if you arent up to making them proud, the way they are meant to be shot, well, doom on you, don't blame the gun. :)
 
It's 2am and you hear glass breaking. Given a choice between the two, do you grab the Garand, or the AR? Why?
Neither is a particularly good choice.

Reload speed does matter and for every single magazine in the AR, you're reloading the M1 multiple times. 3-5secs is a long time. Can you top off that Garand if you run it half dry?
Yes, you can top off a Garand. You shouldn't be slagging a guy if you haven't even watched the very first video he posted. Very simple to top one off.

Can I put a light on it so I know not to shoot my neighbor's dog?

Can I put an optic on it so I can actually see my target? Or a red dot that I can use at night?
Yes, to all. Ultimak and Amega Ranges both make rails for the Garand that do not require permanently altering the rifle. They just replace the upper handguard. Ultimak is a simple top rail that allows mounting a scope. Amega Ranges allows lights, etc. to be added on the side.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top