New Breech Plugs for old 1970's vintage H&R .58 Huntsman

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Snidely70431

Snidely70431

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A couple of months ago i picked up an old 1970's vintage H&R .58 Huntsman muzzleloader. I finally found a couple of boxes of .58 (.575, actually) round ball ammunition for it at Sportsman's Warehouse, so I decided I had enough to waste a few seeing how it shot, so I made a new breech plug to fit it, this one to take .38 Special or .357 Magnum cartridges instead of 209 shot shell primers. Eventually, I will make one to take .44 S&W Special or .44 Magnum cartridges, and then I will have a muzzleloader that I will be able to shoot as long as I have small or large pistol or rifle primers, or 209 shot shell primers. Right now, with the current primer shortage, having that sort of flexibility is, to me, comforting. BTW, rifle and pistol primers, in my experience, will function in either rifles or pistol cartridges. Pistol primers just won't take high pressures and there may be ignition issues - not an issue in a muzzleloader.

I know there are some people who will quibble about the old H&R breech plug being unsafe because of the possibility that, in the event of a hang fire, a person could open the breech prematurely and have the BP blow out but, 1) I have never had a hang fire on any firearm using any sort of primer and 2) If I do have a hang fire, I will not open the breech for a while. Sort of like the old joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says his face hurts, but only when he smiles. Doctor says, "Don't smile."

upload_2021-4-3_2-50-5.jpeg

upload_2021-4-3_2-50-40.jpeg

upload_2021-4-3_2-51-17.jpeg

In all these pictures the original breech plug is on the right, the new one is on the left.

The remnant threads on the new plug are the result of there being threads on the scrap steel out of which I made the plug, not of any intent. The O-ring on the new plug is smaller than that on the original because it was what I had. If I can find larger O-rings I may alter the groove to use them, or not. From looking at the plugs, the O-ring probably serves the purpose of holding the plug in the barrel, not to stop leakage, but that is a guess. It may do both.
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, so I'll bite the bullet and ask.

Do you just put a primer, or a shell casing with the primer?
 
gobsauce said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, so I'll bite the bullet and ask.

Do you just put a primer, or a shell casing with the primer?
Click to expand...

The cartridge is primed, as usual. The primed cartridge is inserted in the breech block. The breech is closed. Propellant is put into the muzzle. A projectile is inserted into the muzzle, in this case a patched round ball. The rifle is now ready to fire.
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
I wouldn't be thrilled with the idea of priming first then loading from the muzzle.
Click to expand...
The H&R Huntsman is the same action H&R used for its cartridge shotguns and rifles. Have you ever heard of an H&R shotgun or rifle firing without cocking the hammer? IMHO, just another quibble by another quibbler.
 
He may be referring to dieseling, a condition that rarely happens due to ramming a patched ball fast enough to compress air hot enough to ignite the powder charge. I have doubts on that but I guess it can happen.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
He may be referring to dieseling, a condition that rarely happens due to ramming a patched ball fast enough to compress air hot enough to ignite the powder charge. I have doubts on that but I guess it can happen.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of that happening, but if it could - about which I am agnostic - it would not matter if there was a primer in back of it or not.
 
Snidely70431 said:
The H&R Huntsman is the same action H&R used for its cartridge shotguns and rifles. Have you ever heard of an H&R shotgun or rifle firing without cocking the hammer? IMHO, just another quibble by another quibbler.
Click to expand...

Call me names if you want, but it is nearly universally accepted that the first rule of gun safety is to always keep the muzzle of a gun (especially a loaded gun) pointed in a safe direction.
Obviously muzzleloaders require you to get in front of the muzzle, but most folks do that without a cap or primer in place and prime last when their body parts are out of the way.
I'm still not thrilled with the idea of getting myself in front of the muzzle of a primed and loaded gun.

I didn't expect that to be a controversial observation, but to each his own.
 
Snidely70431 said:
The H&R Huntsman is the same action H&R used for its cartridge shotguns and rifles. Have you ever heard of an H&R shotgun or rifle firing without cocking the hammer? IMHO, just another quibble by another quibbler.
Click to expand...

I have several H&R break barrel rifles and shotguns. Most have a transfer bar safety. Does the huntsman have a transfer bar safety? If not, I don't suppose I would be comfortable meddling around the muzzle with a primer kissing the hammer either. But hey, that's just me.
 
Snidely70431 said:
The cartridge is primed, as usual. The primed cartridge is inserted in the breech block. The breech is closed. Propellant is put into the muzzle. A projectile is inserted into the muzzle, in this case a patched round ball. The rifle is now ready to fire.
Click to expand...

So is it a complete cartridge ? With bullet and powder? Aside from the black powder and patch & ball.
 
noelf2 said:
I have several H&R break barrel rifles and shotguns. Most have a transfer bar safety. Does the huntsman have a transfer bar safety? If not, I don't suppose I would be comfortable meddling around the muzzle with a primer kissing the hammer either. But hey, that's just me.
Click to expand...

The old Huntsman does not have a transfer bar per se, but there is a mechanism that prevents the firing pin from protruding past the back of the receiver unless the trigger is pulled. Pushing on the hammer without the trigger being pulled causes the firing pin to stop flush with the back of the receiver.
 
Made some more breech plugs, one for a .41 Remington Magnum and one for the .410 shotshell.

upload_2021-5-2_10-56-10.jpeg

The background is a target shot at about 20' with a .410 Winchester 2 1/2" loaded with a half ounce of #8 shot rated at 1300 fps. Picture includes the actual shotshell.

Also included in the picture is the breech plug I made to take the .410 shotshell (upper right) and a brass .410 fireformed out of a spent .303 British cartridge using 10 grains of Unique, an overpowder wad of one square of TP, grits to the bottom of the taper, and paraffin wax to the top of the case. Credit to Ed Harris https://www.grantcunningham.com/2014/07/ed-harris-how-to-make-and-load-all-brass-410-shotshells/. You would undoubtedly get better results firing off the round in an actual .410 shotgun, but it worked for my purposes.

The empty .410 shell holds about 43 grains of Pyrodex, the brass fireformed .303 brass case about 40 grains, with room for an overpowder wad to hold the powder in the case.

If you are nervous about loading a ball from the muzzle onto powder and a primer, the ball can be seated and then the loaded cartridge case put into the breech plug, but you are limited to the capacity of the case.
 
Snidely70431 said:
A couple of months ago i picked up an old 1970's vintage H&R .58 Huntsman muzzleloader. I finally found a couple of boxes of .58 (.575, actually) round ball ammunition for it at Sportsman's Warehouse, so I decided I had enough to waste a few seeing how it shot, so I made a new breech plug to fit it, this one to take .38 Special or .357 Magnum cartridges instead of 209 shot shell primers. Eventually, I will make one to take .44 S&W Special or .44 Magnum cartridges, and then I will have a muzzleloader that I will be able to shoot as long as I have small or large pistol or rifle primers, or 209 shot shell primers. Right now, with the current primer shortage, having that sort of flexibility is, to me, comforting. BTW, rifle and pistol primers, in my experience, will function in either rifles or pistol cartridges. Pistol primers just won't take high pressures and there may be ignition issues - not an issue in a muzzleloader.

I know there are some people who will quibble about the old H&R breech plug being unsafe because of the possibility that, in the event of a hang fire, a person could open the breech prematurely and have the BP blow out but, 1) I have never had a hang fire on any firearm using any sort of primer and 2) If I do have a hang fire, I will not open the breech for a while. Sort of like the old joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says his face hurts, but only when he smiles. Doctor says, "Don't smile."

View attachment 989220

View attachment 989221

View attachment 989222

In all these pictures the original breech plug is on the right, the new one is on the left.

The remnant threads on the new plug are the result of there being threads on the scrap steel out of which I made the plug, not of any intent. The O-ring on the new plug is smaller than that on the original because it was what I had. If I can find larger O-rings I may alter the groove to use them, or not. From looking at the plugs, the O-ring probably serves the purpose of holding the plug in the barrel, not to stop leakage, but that is a guess. It may do both.
Click to expand...

Sir, do you make these breech plugs yourself?
 
So…… if you are using during a “primitive hunt/black powder only period - are you carrying something that technically can chamber a .38/.357 cartridge?
If so, might you possibly be violating some law?
 
Sudden Thunder said:
So…… if you are using during a “primitive hunt/black powder only period - are you carrying something that technically can chamber a .38/.357 cartridge?
If so, might you possibly be violating some law?
Click to expand...

I do not hunt, I just shoot. That said, the .38/.357 (or whatever other cartridge I may use) is just a carrier for the primer, or the primer and the powder charge if I'm loading Unique.
 
Sudden Thunder said:
So…… if you are using during a “primitive hunt/black powder only period - are you carrying something that technically can chamber a .38/.357 cartridge?
If so, might you possibly be violating some law?
Click to expand...
Oh. BTW, in Louisiana a primitive weapon is any single shot weapon of greater than .35 caliber for deer. Also Mississippi. A .35 Whelen is fine.
 
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