45-70 handloads

FTX cases are shorter than standard so the pointy rubber nose bullet will feed through lever actions.
I doubt it matters in a single shot.

The ogive of the FTX starts right at the cannalure of this bullet. In a single shot, as Jim said, the longer Hodgdon OAL should be fine. The thought of smokeless and some high tech bullet in a Pedersolli is an abomination in my eyes.

I'd be on the hunt for some 405gr cast and some black powder.

Your poll choices make no sense.

Start Slow and Low!

Do you have photos of the trapdoor? one of dream guns

Don't trim can't go back.

45 70 was a black powder gun and in these powder times I would be shooting it with black or a substitute. That stuff is everywhere and in good supply.

I voted "2". "Yes, No" seemed too ambiguous.

We're talking about less than 1/16th of an inch on a case that's over 2 inches long. So unless you're planning to push the envelope on SAAMI max pressure (which I would hope a newly constructed model could handle with ease), I don't see a reason you can't use the slightly shorter cases. I'd just not take the charge all the way up to the hodgdon max, and focus on accuracy.

If you'd like I can see if I can run it through Quickloads. Just let me know.

mrawesome22-250 said:

The thought of smokeless and some high tech bullet in a Pedersolli is an abomination in my eyes.

I'd be on the hunt for some 405gr cast and some black powder.

Your poll choices make no sense.

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Meh, I shoot IMR4198 in my Pedersoli... but with cast, of course. Have no desire to go to Holy Black.

OP, your Pedersoli likely has a long leade... I seat my cast bullets waaaay out there. Before trimming that valuable brass, I would check your seating depth with a dummy cartridge. I would also be careful with H335.

OP, which Pedersoli is it? An 1885, or what?

jval said:

1873, hey wronghanded, please do run it through quickloads. Thanks.

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Based on the Hornady manual for the 325gr FTX, case length of 2.040", and cartridge OAL of 2.590":

QL runs in PSI and claim 28K PSI as SAAMI max for the cartridge. 51.5gr of H335 is at 27,753PSI in the program. I might consider 51.0gr as a max, just to be safe.

51.0gr claims 27,019PSI and 1907fps from a 24" barrel. Fill is 86.6%. Primers are not specified (as far as I can tell).

As a reference, 50.0gr is 25,614PSI and 1869fps from a 24" barrel, with 84.9% fill.

Interesting, changing case length to 2.100" and the cartridge length to 2.650" doesn't seem to change pressure much. But it is just a computer program.

That 56.8gr on the hodgdon site looks a little scary though QL. Actually, it looks a lot scary! 100.7% case fill, and 40,796PSI.

It's possible I'm doing something wrong, but I don't think so.

I shoot AA5744 on my Pedersoli Sharps with 405 grainers and BP for my 535 grains Postell bullets. As @Jim Watson states FTX is already shorter than others.

The FTX is fine.
The H335, not so much.
To get a clean, efficient burn, you’ll need to load to near maximum for a lever action. Too much for the trap door!
Besides, you won’t want to shoot them. RECOIL!!!
I loaded up some 325gr FTX for a friend to shoot in his Browning ‘78 falling block. Hornady recommend load of IMR4198. 2,100fps.
He fired one shot! 8lb rifle kicks like a 12lb .458winmag! Only worse with metal butt plate...
Ended up hunting the Ohio season and taking a doe with a 400gr Cast over 20.0gr of #2400.
Even said that kicked too much. Gave them back to me in exchange for same bullet over 13.0gr of RedDot, that duplicates the original Carbine load.

jval said:

The Perdersoli is an 1873. I realize most everyone goes with BP pushing 405 gr cast, but can anyone recommend a good combination of jacketed bullet and smokeless powder? I plan to load light to go easy on my old shoulder.

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I didn't realize Pedersoli actually made replica Trapdoors! Sweet!

The jacketed bullet is the problem... and the H335. Is there another powder you can use? Even with modern metallurgy, I would not want to run the top end of pressure in a Trappy. With the included instructions, does Pedersoli give you a max pressure with their rifle? They did with my 1885...

EDIT: I went and looked meself...

LOADINGANDFIRING

1)Use only factory loaded .45-70 ammunition C.l.P ruled or reloaded with black powder (orPyrodex, if allowed in your Country). Ammunition used should not exceed 18,000 C.U.P.

18000 CUP really limits you on what you can do with jacketed bullets and a powder like H335.

jval... do you have any UNIQUE (or Universal), or 5744 on hand?
See also HERE for more data -- carefully looking only for TRAPDOOR notation.

Stay away from ball/spheroidal powders that require higher pressures/case-fill for proper ignition/burn

If you can find it try some Trail Boss, makes for a enjoyable load.

That's interesting, considering that the CIP spec is 28000 psi and even a Trapdoor REPLICA will have been proof tested 1/3 over that.

I would not try reducing H335 loads much; a friend tried to light load his .458 with Ball C and got horribly wild velocity variation. Ball powder does not reduce kindly.

Do be careful with Trail Boss, pressure goes up pretty fast as you get close to normal bullet weight in a .45-70.

Charlie98 said:

Ammunition used should not exceed 18,000 C.U.P.

Click to expand...

Jim Watson said:

That's interesting, considering that the CIP spec is 28000 psi and even a Trapdoor REPLICA will have been proof tested 1/3 over that.

Click to expand...

Loading what I consider my 'Trapdoor' loads... that is IMR4198 (or AA5744) under a 405grn cast bullet at a nominal 1400fps, puts me right at, or just below, the 18K PSI figure, and is representative of what was likely a Trapdoor load from Way Back When.

I do have data for 300grn jacketed bullets, unfortunately H335 isn't one of the powders listed... but IMR3031 is, which I found interesting. As Jim Watson mentions... ball powders don't reduce well, I would probably look for some H4895 if you wanted to go there. The correct thing is to use a better powder, even with jacketed bullets...

12.0 - 14.0 gr Universal under 350-405gr cast bullet
is the classic BP-level loadout for 45-70

"(**) This pressure is generally considered to be near the safe limit for original antique Trapdoor model rifles which have been examined by a qualified gunsmith and found to be in good condition. Modern made Pedersoli Trapdoor 45-70 rifles are safe to the higher 29007 PSI/CUP pressure. Other brands of modern made Trapdoor rifles may not be safe at this high pressure and the mfr. must be consulted for their data."

I'm just repeating what I saw off Pedersoli's actual website, and the information available.... as quoted above (Post #15.) This contradicts what I see posted (as copied above...) from Pedersoli, and the source linked in post #22.

If you are looking for an excuse to blow your gun up, that's cool... I'm just saying you need to look at a different avenue if you wish to successfully load for your Trapdoor.

Too bad varget is as rare as unicorn piss at the moment, iirc it runs 4570s at a really low pressure.

Edit:
Nevermind, I looked it up, it's over 18k psi.