Universal Background Checks Suck

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unspellable said:
OK, delayed five out of six times. First time in Alabama with an Alabama carry permit in my pocket. At that time the Alabama carry permit did not allow bypassing NICS. This was at a gun show so I never got the revolver I was trying to buy. After five times, I got fed up an went through the process to find out why. !. $10 fee for finger prints. two or thee weeks later I get a letter stating I filled out the wrong form. Sent the right form in. Two or three weeks later I get a letter, they can't read the finger prints. Another $10 fee for prints. two or three weeks later I get a letter, "We only keep the record of the check for 72 hours so we can't say why you were delayed." Never did find out why.
I think the intent of the background check is to simply add rigamarol to acquiring a firearm. Keep adding little bits of complication untill it's a real pain.
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You might want to read this:

https://www.uslawshield.com/upin/
 
There should be nationwide Real ID's (for lots of things including air travel and certain cross border travel), and it should say on the ID whether or not the holder is prohibited. If the buyer can produce a Real ID showing they are not prohibited, any sale with a FFL, or individual to individual should be fine.
 
Pudge said:
There should be nationwide Real ID's (for lots of things including air travel and certain cross border travel), and it should say on the ID whether or not the holder is prohibited. If the buyer can produce a Real ID showing they are not prohibited, any sale with a FFL, or individual to individual should be fine.
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Where to begin, other than......

NO!
 
I absolutely agree that the present background checking process doesn’t do what it is advertised to do but, I can live with it because - I definitely do not want the process that will ultimately do as advertised, I cannot live with that. The present process is the devil I know, the devil I don’t know is the scary one.
 
marvin02 said:
They would have to care and want the system to work. The definition of "work" in this case is different for pro gun folks than anti-gun folks. Especially if all delays turn into denials there is no reason for anti-gunners to make sure the system "works". Increasing the number of denials might be the very definition of working to them.
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The one big think is that there has been a huge increase in Democrats who own guns. And they dislike the NICS system. There are now even pro gun leftwing groups on FB.
 
Deanimator said:
So-called "universal background checks" are INTENDED TO FAIL, since they CANNOT work WITHOUT REGISTRATION.

Registration has NO purpose beyond facilitation of future CONFISCATION.
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In point of fact, the mere existence of a 4473 is registration.

When I was living in California, two beach campers were murdered in their sleep by a scumbag with a Marlin Camp 45. Local law enforcement went to all the area FFLs and "requested" to see their 4473s in a search of names of everybody who had bought a Marlin Camp 45. Now, keep in mind, this article was in the Sacramento Bee which is a notoriously liberal rag. I was amazed they even printed it.

Anyway, according to the article, every FFL complied. Law enforcement then contacted the owners of the Marlin Camp 45 and "requested" they allow the authorities to test the weapons for ballistics. Again, every owner complied.

I don't know if they ever found the shooter, but we all realized that the 4473 is tantamount to "registration."
 
I'm in Washington and it sucks. The new background check also did away with the free pass we had with a carry permit. At the same time they added semi-auto rifles to the same waiting period as a handgun. So a bolt gun goes home today, come back in a couple weeks for your 10/22. Oh, and you have proof of your taking your semi-auto class too right?

The latter is of course the definition of a do nothing law once you see the current class requirement, but it could easily be abused.
 
swg1 said:
I'm in Washington and it sucks. The new background check also did away with the free pass we had with a carry permit. At the same time they added semi-auto rifles to the same waiting period as a handgun. So a bolt gun goes home today, come back in a couple weeks for your 10/22. Oh, and you have proof of your taking your semi-auto class too right?

The latter is of course the definition of a do nothing law once you see the current class requirement, but it could easily be abused.
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I am also in Washington. To add to your post, as part of the same law, the state is supposed to enact a system to perform an annual review of your continued eligibility to own a pistol or semi auto rifle.
 
Yeah, besides doing lil to nothing to curb violent crimes. They are a major PITA for the casual collector/buyer. Some of the coolest finds are through pure happenstance and a private sale. I was just thinking about buying a trap gun, pretty specific task kind of gun, not really versatile. It would be nice if I knew that if I decided not to keep it trading it with somebody in the trap club would be a nice option to have but now there is a very annoying, costly aspect of make a trade/sale that turns people off enough to just not want to bother with it.
 
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Hardened criminals are not ones going into a school and killing 26 kids and teachers, its Joe loner down the street. How do you stop the mentally ill or nut case next door from getting a gun? Its a real issue folks and keeping Ed and Sarah regular folks happy and keep their kids safe. Wither you like it or not that is the Real problem. So how do we as responsible gun owners help address those issues without getting mad at the parents of those 26 kids? Because if we don't They Will Take your guns away 2nd amendment or not by hook or crook.
 
wmgeorge said:
Hardened criminals are not ones going into a school and killing 26 kids and teachers, its Joe loner down the street. How do you stop the mentally ill or nut case next door from getting a gun? Its a real issue folks and keeping Ed and Sarah regular folks happy and keep their kids safe. Wither you like it or not that is the Real problem. So how do we as responsible gun owners help address those issues without getting mad at the parents of those 26 kids? Because if we don't They Will Take your guns away 2nd amendment or not by hook or crook.
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The goal is to create a TOTAL government (and crony) monopoly on the means of armed force. That is wholly apart from any alleged justifications or excuses. It is an end IN ITSELF, totally divorced from ANY other issue.

NOTHING short of a TOTAL gun BAN will satisfy the gun control cult and the greater culture of totalitarianism of which it is a part.

Denying that is merely self-deception.
 
Let's stay on the issue and not grand schemes or fears. Discuss the pros and cons of UBCs, please.
 
unspellable said:
Somebody said it might be because I had a secret clearance so my name and prnts were already in the system. Don't know if I buy that one.
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unspellable, the secret clearance should have nothing to do with NICS check delays. Yes, your prints and a whole lot of info are on file with a few agencies, no it's not for criminal reasons.
The first "hurdle" is the first and last name. If you share a common name with a criminal or two, it will cause obstacles, delays, denials, etc.
I have a common name. I've been delayed, denied a few times and finally I got the UPIN. It now is part of the process for every 4473 transaction. My checks take a little longer than uncommonly named friends, but it will be approved.
But, the name issue also dogs me whenever I return to the US from international travel. The bad person is in the Federal system and I always get the stink eye at the port of entry. But, that's a story for another day.
 
To be perfectly honest, the Colorado UBC implemented almost 8 years ago has had zero impact on my life. I am not an Armslist ranger, and don't conduct "private" sales or purchases- everything is via LGS FFL dealer. Meeting some random dude in a Walmart parking lot to sell one of my guns has zero appeal to me.

A few facts about the law here:

No UBC for transfer between family members (spouse, siblings, children, parents, grandparents)

No UBC required for less than 72 hour transfer, so the stupid horror stories about letting your buddy hold or shoot your firearm at the range are null and void.

The law does not apply to C&R (50+ years old) or antique firearms, so pre-1971 is off the hook.

If you do end-up needing a transfer, most shops will do them for a nominal fee.

Just my observations. You are free to disagree.
 
.455_Hunter said:
No UBC required for less than 72 hour transfer, so the stupid horror stories about letting your buddy hold or shoot your firearm at the range are null and void.
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I was actually not aware of this. But it's good to know.

Honestly, I too feel that UBCs have had no real impact on my life. I've sold privately to a few people I know, and usually they have brought up doing a background check before I have. Some others have approached me and tried to get me to sell them a gun. But as soon as I say "I like to stay on the right side of the law so we'd have to do a background check", their enthusiasm evaporates. And I think you can guess why.
 
Deanimator said:
The goal is to create a TOTAL government (and crony) monopoly on the means of armed force. That is wholly apart from any alleged justifications or excuses. It is an end IN ITSELF, totally divorced from ANY other issue.

NOTHING short of a TOTAL gun BAN will satisfy the gun control cult and the greater culture of totalitarianism of which it is a part.

Denying that is merely self-deception.
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I am denying that. IF gun owners don't come up with a way to self police and/or help stop the sale of guns to nut cases, How will you stop the mass killings? What if its your child or grand child murdered. Hey I own guns and have for the last 68 years how is keeping a gun out of mentally ill peoples hands hurting you?? We are not talking gun ban, we are talking common sense. I have bought and sold guns in private sales for years, no permit no gun. Its just once again common sense, UBC will not bother me in the least.
 
UBC is a knee jerk reaction to nut jobs who shoot up the general public. Nobody wants to talk about the number of these shootings where a person with no felony conviction fills out his 4473, buys a rifle then kills 10 people. We have a UBC in this state and I'm seeing homicide rates double and triple in the major WA cities since the UBC became law. So, if you get a national UBC I doubt much of anything will change. The only thing it changed here was the waiting period because now the state has 10 days for semi-auto rifles as well as handguns and everyone gets a BC to transfer anything.

Our UBC was more for the registration of semi-auto rifles into the state database. Pistols have been registered in the state DB for a long time.
 
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wmgeorge said:
I am denying that. IF gun owners don't come up with a way to self police and/or help stop the sale of guns to nut cases, How will you stop the mass killings? What if its your child or grand child murdered. Hey I own guns and have for the last 68 years how is keeping a gun out of mentally ill peoples hands hurting you?? We are not talking gun ban, we are talking common sense. I have bought and sold guns in private sales for years, no permit no gun. Its just once again common sense, UBC will not bother me in the least.
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"Common sense" GUN BANS are the ONLY thing that's "on the table".

So-called "universal background checks" are a NULLITY without REGISTRATION.

Registration has NO function apart from facilitation of future CONFISCATION.

The anti-gun cult isn't even PRETENDING otherwise anymore.
 
WrongHanded said:
How do you figure that?
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The same way that everybody else who's given it two second's thought has "figured" it.

Without REGISTRATION, how do you enforce it? You CAN'T.

It's all steps to the ultimate goal: universal background check => registration => confiscation.

Any claim to the contrary is just disinformation. Even THEY don't hide it anymore.
 
SunnySlopes said:
In point of fact, the mere existence of a 4473 is registration.

When I was living in California, two beach campers were murdered in their sleep by a scumbag with a Marlin Camp 45. Local law enforcement went to all the area FFLs and "requested" to see their 4473s in a search of names of everybody who had bought a Marlin Camp 45. Now, keep in mind, this article was in the Sacramento Bee which is a notoriously liberal rag. I was amazed they even printed it.

Anyway, according to the article, every FFL complied. Law enforcement then contacted the owners of the Marlin Camp 45 and "requested" they allow the authorities to test the weapons for ballistics. Again, every owner complied.

I don't know if they ever found the shooter, but we all realized that the 4473 is tantamount to "registration."
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If it is the case I think it is they did after a
SunnySlopes said:
In point of fact, the mere existence of a 4473 is registration.

When I was living in California, two beach campers were murdered in their sleep by a scumbag with a Marlin Camp 45. Local law enforcement went to all the area FFLs and "requested" to see their 4473s in a search of names of everybody who had bought a Marlin Camp 45. Now, keep in mind, this article was in the Sacramento Bee which is a notoriously liberal rag. I was amazed they even printed it.

Anyway, according to the article, every FFL complied. Law enforcement then contacted the owners of the Marlin Camp 45 and "requested" they allow the authorities to test the weapons for ballistics. Again, every owner complied.

I don't know if they ever found the shooter, but we all realized that the 4473 is tantamount to "registration."
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They found him. It took them over a decade to put him in prison. He had also murdered his brother in 2017
 
Deanimator said:
The same way that everybody else who's given it two second's thought has "figured" it.

Without REGISTRATION, how do you enforce it? You CAN'T.

It's all steps to the ultimate goal: universal background check => registration => confiscation.

Any claim to the contrary is just disinformation. Even THEY don't hide it anymore.
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Actually, it can be largely enforced. Most law abiding gun owners will not break the law to sell a gun without a background check where one is required if:
  • They believe the sale may be a sting operation
  • They know the buyer may given them up if they are caught commiting a criminal act
If there are serious legal ramifications to selling a firearm without a background check, most people won't want to take that risk. Particularly if others have been caught and convicted for doing the same, lost their gun rights, and possibly been sentenced to time in prison. It just wouldn't be worth it to me. Would it be worth it to you?
 
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