45-70 handloads

Can I use H335 with 325 FTX in a 45-70 Trapdoor

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Trashyshoots said:
Too bad varget is as rare as unicorn piss at the moment, iirc it runs 4570s at a really low pressure.

Edit:
Nevermind, I looked it up, it's over 18k psi.
Click to expand...

I was actually surprised to see Varget on the list at all... It would not be the first powder I would think of for low-pressure loads.
 
jval said:
Thanks, wronghanded, I'm loading 48.8gr of H335 pushing a 325gr FTX with a 2.040 case out of a Perdosoli (new) Trapdoor 22" barrel. That's all according to Hodgdon online reloading site (Trapdoor Rifles) specs, starting load. CUP is 17,800, 1,688 ft/s. Alternatively, same Hodgdon data, I could use 26.5gr of H322 pushing 325gr FTX at 1,401 ft/s and 17,100 CUP. So, for those who don't think H335 is best, what about H322? I'm limited by what smokeless powders I have on hand. Can't find any RL, or 4198, 4198 etc.
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I'd stick with the starting load unless it's not burning right, fails to reach useful velocity for that bullet, or just won't group.
 
Charlie98 said:
Loading what I consider my 'Trapdoor' loads... that is IMR4198 (or AA5744) under a 405grn cast bullet at a nominal 1400fps, puts me right at, or just below, the 18K PSI figure, and is representative of what was likely a Trapdoor load from Way Back When.

I do have data for 300grn jacketed bullets, unfortunately H335 isn't one of the powders listed... but IMR3031 is, which I found interesting. As Jim Watson mentions... ball powders don't reduce well, I would probably look for some H4895 if you wanted to go there. The correct thing is to use a better powder, even with jacketed bullets...

View attachment 991344
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IMR 4227, IMR 3031 and Alliant 2400 are my first-thru-third choices but if the H335 load is published and tested in THAT Trapdoor, and it's what the OP has, then sticking to starting loads and well under max ought to be fine for a limited diet. I would not suggest feeding ANY Trapdoor a steady diet of max+ smokeless.
 
GooseGestapo said:
Ended up hunting the Ohio season and taking a doe with a 400gr Cast over 20.0gr of #2400.
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Yup! same goes for anything in a modern Trapdoor that wears a jacket or gas check.
2400 and 4227 are made for loads like this.
26gr. 2400, 26gr. IMR 4227, or 35gr. IMR 3031. If needs be, I like the old 13gr. Unique load, too. It's not just the amount of pressure, it's how quick the pressure builds that loosens a Trapdoor.
 
I have used the FTX cases in my original Trapdoor without issue, I wouldn't be worried about that.

For powder, considering what you have on hand I would use the Universal, personally. I only shoot black powder in mine.

For the bullet, you should really consider using soft lead (mine are 20:1, you can get them from Desperado Cowboy Bullets and they are readily available, but take a week or two to show up) or at least slug your bore to see if the jacketed bullets will engage the rifling nicely. I'm sure the reproductions have more consistent bores, but the originals tended to run large, and soft lead is the way around that. Plus, if you ever get into black powder cartridge reloading, which you absolutely should because it's a blast with a Trapdoor, you'll already have the bullets for it!
 
Charlie98 said:
You are dancing all around the one and only IMR4198... I'm telling you, IMR4198 and cast rifle go together like macaroni and cheese... ;)
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But is it like peanut butter and Thai chilies? ;)

I’ll give it a whirl IF it’s even available again. The OP already pointed out he can’t find powder.

And if I can find 405gr hard cast WFN bullets in .458 again. Hunters Supply are okay but a little hard for my Pedersoli.
 
I am certainly not looking to load anything that's unsafe. All the loads I am considering are smokeless and per the "starting" loads in the manuals and well within CUP limits that I can find anywhere including Perdersoli's Proof limits as referenced in post #22 above. Again my objective is to load and shoot the trapdoor for fun at no more than 100 yards. I may at some point, try some BP with 405 lead. Thanks to all for educating me.
 
jval said:
I am certainly not looking to load anything that's unsafe. All the loads I am considering are smokeless and per the "starting" loads in the manuals and well within CUP limits that I can find anywhere including Perdersoli's Proof limits as referenced in post #22 above. Again my objective is to load and shoot the trapdoor for fun at no more than 100 yards. I may at some point, try some BP with 405 lead. Thanks to all for educating me.
Click to expand...

Majority of loads for my original 1873 trapdoor are 405 HB with 60 to 65 grains of FF. The only smokeless powder I use is 27 grains H4198 with same bullet. It is the lowest CUP Hodgdon lists and is very close in performance with the blackpowder loads.
With my old eyes with those tiny sights I can hit a 8 inch gong all day long at 100 yards with it with either powder.
 
OP, you mention 100yd shooting for fun. As I mentioned, I’ve got a Pedersoli 1885 that I shoot for fun, so far out to a measly 1244yds... and it is fun! First with my Marlin 1895, and now with the 1885, I experimented with a lot of bullet and powder combinations... everything from Unique all the way to IMR4064, 300grn to the nominal 405grn cast. Even with the heavier 32” barrel of the 1885, I reached a threshold of about 1500fps where it stopped being ‘fun’ and turned into ‘work,’ and some beyond that were pure ‘Not Fun.’ With that lighter Trappy, my suggestion would be to keep to the lower velocities using faster powders... or even pistol powders like Unique, TrailBoss, 2400, IMR4227, or even RedDot.

working off your OP... that is H335... it can be done, but don’t get discouraged if you don’t get the results you might be looking for at first.

I still have question about what pressures are acceptable in your rifle... I would probably go to the source for The Answer. The reality of the situation is you will likely load well below that pressure, eventually, for ‘fun’ loads.
 
jval said:
Perdosoli (new) Trapdoor 22" barrel.
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Makes it a carbine. Early days, there was a carbine load, .45-55-405, to keep the recoil down. Velocity barely over 1000 fps. I think they later decided it wasn't worth the trouble and issued .45-70-405 and .45-70-500 to all units.
 
In 1970 I was at an antique store and there was a 1873 Officers Model Trap Door Springfield hanging on the wall. When I asked how much he wanted, the guy said, I have no clue, make me an offer. I offered $20.00 and he took it, then asked would you be interested in more? So he took me to the back room and showed me a Springfield Arsenal Full Case of infantry model 1873 Trap Doors, still in the original grease and waxed paper. Bought the whole case. Sold the unmolested wooden crate for 10 times what I paid for the whole shambang. The modern LIGHT loaded smokeless powder factory ammo works fine in both the Officer's Model which I kept and one of the infrantry models.

Bob
 
I have the bullets(405,425,535), the cases, and the powder(Swiss 1 1/2 F, Goex 1 F, and OE 1 1/2 F)
Now all I have to do is get the rifle.
I always seem to put the cart before the horse.
Thank you
 
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