The Comparison I Have Been Wanting. Max 9, P365, Hellcat, Shield+

Trey Veston said:

HRFunk is a member on another gun forum and is a super nice guy and very intelligent. He is a former Marine, likely officer, likely a former Eagle Scout, and is as stiff, no nonsense, and Just-The-Facts-Ma'am as you can get. His reviews of a firearm are very thorough and factual.

I think the Demolition Ranch guy is his punk kid who never got a job and is rebelling against the straight-laced father, lol.

Click to expand...

He was a corporal, I believe. Definitely not an officer. 30 years as a cop before becoming Chief. He finally just retired. He seems like genuinely nice guy and definitely knowledgeable. Big gun guy. Was his department armorer and sniper on the SWAT team.

John_R said:

Or the pretty boy with the tight T-shirt, or the Yankee guy...

Reviewers I can’t watch even if I agree with them.

Click to expand...

Yankee Marshall so unlikeable he is unwatchable. Usually misinformed and biased.

NutNFancy might know his stuff, but his videos are far too long and his terminology and language is irritating. Tried watching him a few nights ago and his first 10 minutes were about everything other than the gun.

tarosean said:

Exactly why I don't care for him.. If a piece of crap, call a spade a spade.

Click to expand...

To be fair, there aren’t many guns out there that are actual crap. Maybe Hickok should review some Jennings or AMTs.

I agree with the take on hrfunk. Tells it like it is. His reviews are straight up. He did a day in the life as a LEO in his world. Very informative and down to earth. Very likeable.

I like shooting videos that teach me something so that I can practice and improve my shooting. Jerry Miculek’s videos have always taught me something. I like Lenny Magill’s instructional videos but then I’m a big Glockstore fan from when I lived in SD. Evaluation videos featuring the latest & greatest I can take with a grain of salt because the guns & ammo are provided by the manufacturers so the conclusions are invariably favorable. Same goes for the evaluation articles in the gun rags.

bannockburn said:

Thanks for the link! I have been waiting for the same kind of review of all 4 guns.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the link too, so thanks Mike J. I do wonder if the reviewer's opinion might have been different had he tested the 365 XL instead of the smaller variant.

Trey Veston said:

I think the Demolition Ranch guy is his punk kid who never got a job and is rebelling against the straight-laced father, lol.

Click to expand...

He is a Veterinarian in real life. Graduated from Texas A&M.
Though I suspect Youtube is paying more now-a-days, which is fine, as "its entertainment".

tarosean said:

He is a Veterinarian in real life. Graduated from Texas A&M.
Though I suspect Youtube is paying more now-a-days, which is fine, as "its entertainment".

Click to expand...

I enjoy that channel occasionally. Silly, often, for sure but knowing how many Stretch Armstrong's it takes to stop a .50 BMG might come in handy some day

Mike J said:

I have watched enough of his videos to know he will not come right out & bad mouth a gun. He also will not edit out any malfunctions he has while filming the videos & he will even mention any others he has had shooting it whether it happened on video or not. He will also make remarks that give information about things he likes & dislikes. While he wont call a gun a piece of crap there is information there but you do have to pay attention & listen closely.

Click to expand...

I do like watching vids to see what is happening and make my own judgements. Hickock is like that, I can see when he's fumbling with a gun that isn't running 100% and I take note to compare that to other sources. He's not my first stop anymore, but more of a check against other vid presenters.

Paul Harrell doesn't come out and bash guns either. He gives you info, you watch the results, and he lets "you be the judge".

There are others that I watch for similar reasons. I'm in it to see how the gun runs and shoots. It might be presented by a fairly boring personality, or not.

I don't watch videos of table top opinions where all I see is hands on a gun and no shooting, or shooting simply inserted in as background filler while the mouth at the table never stops.

chicharrones said:

I don't watch videos of table top opinions where all I see is hands on a gun and no shooting, or shooting simply inserted in as background filler while the mouth at the table never stops.

Click to expand...

Amen to that.

chicharrones said:

I do like watching vids to see what is happening and make my own judgements. Hickock is like that, I can see when he's fumbling with a gun that isn't running 100% and I take note to compare that to other sources. He's not my first stop anymore, but more of a check against other vid presenters.

Paul Harrell doesn't come out and bash guns either. He gives you info, you watch the results, and he lets "you be the judge".

There are others that I watch for similar reasons. I'm in it to see how the gun runs and shoots. It might be presented by a fairly boring personality, or not.

I don't watch videos of table top opinions where all I see is hands on a gun and no shooting, or shooting simply inserted in as background filler while the mouth at the table never stops.

Click to expand...

Paul recently had some major issues with Federal .22LR ammo and threw the ammo box on the ground and said, “Shame on you, Federal!”

John_R said:

Paul recently had some major issues with Federal .22LR ammo and threw the ammo box on the ground and said, “Shame on you, Federal!”

Click to expand...

Mike J said:

So I have been wanting to see a comparison between these four guns. I ran across this article today.
Heads-Up Comparison: P365 vs. Hellcat vs. MAX-9 vs. M&P9 Shield Plus - The Truth About Guns

I'd still like to see someone like Hickock 45 do a side by side comparison video. In all honesty I'm probably not buying right now but I do find myself interested in these. Maybe I should have kept the old Kel-Tec P11 I gave to a buddy a few years ago. It was reliable & shot well once you got the hang of the trigger.

Click to expand...

The vid link is good as well.

The Hellcat looks sweet.




GR

Regarding the semantics of the size/weight of semi-auto pistols when it comes to describing what the terms "compact","subcompact" and "micro-compact" mean (understanding there are no absolutes), just as an informal exercise in terminology, anyone want to take a a stab at the definitions and/or cite an example of a pistol that might best represent each of the three categories? Or maybe someone else has already done it?
I smell this coming: Compact is smaller than bigger; sub-compact is smaller than compact and micro-compact is smaller than sub-compact, now that we got that out of our system.

SwampWolf said:

Regarding the semantics of the size/weight of semi-auto pistols when it comes to describing what the terms "compact","subcompact" and "micro-compact" mean (understanding there are no absolutes), just as an informal exercise in terminology, anyone want to take a a stab at the definitions and/or cite an example of a pistol that might best represent each of the three categories? Or maybe someone else has already done it?
I smell this coming: Compact is smaller than bigger; sub-compact is smaller than compact and micro-compact is smaller than sub-compact, now that we got that out of our system.

Click to expand...

From what I've seen, a compact gun is traditionally just a smaller version of a service sized pistol with the main differences of just having a shorter slide/barrel and shorter grip length/magazine. Thickness is typically unaltered. Just one example would be a standard CZ75 and the CZ75 Compact.

While a sub-compact is like two steps smaller than a service sized pistol, not just with the barrel/slide and the grip length, but also thinner throughout. But not small enough to be considered a real pocket pistol, and real pocket pistols could be considered micro.

But that's my old understanding.

Looks like some gun makers (like S&W) call guns just a smidge smaller than a sub-compact, but larger than a pocket pistol, a micro-compact. Then S&W has called their pocket pistol sized gun a micro without the "compact" attached to it.

So, it looks like the term micro-compact came around while I wasn't paying attention.

chicharrones said:

From what I've seen, a compact gun is traditionally just a smaller version of a service sized pistol with the main differences of just having a shorter slide/barrel and shorter grip length/magazine. Thickness is typically unaltered. Just one example would be a standard CZ75 and the CZ75 Compact.

While a sub-compact is like two steps smaller than a service sized pistol, not just with the barrel/slide and the grip length, but also thinner throughout. But not small enough to be considered a real pocket pistol, and real pocket pistols could be considered micro.

But that's my old understanding.

Looks like some gun makers (like S&W) call guns just a smidge smaller than a sub-compact, but larger than a pocket pistol, a micro-compact. Then S&W has called their pocket pistol sized gun a micro without the "compact" attached to it.

So, it looks like the term micro-compact came around while I wasn't paying attention.

Click to expand...

Yeah it seems like the compacts seem to have a slightly shorter grip (usually putting overall height in the 5"-5.3" range) and a shorter barrel, usually around 4". Still full three finger grip, often still duty sized. Glock 19, CZ 75 compact, Sig 229, etc.

Then the subcompacts bring the barrel into the 3"-3.5" range and dump the grip down to a two finger grip, overall height in that 4.2-4.5" range and keeping the double stack, often still taking full sized mags. Glock 26, CZ RAMI, Sig p224, etc.

The micros get a little more shaky because they seem to include really small guns like the LCP, single stack slim 9mms like the 938 or Shield and the new 365/shield+/hellcat.

Basically a catchall for anything smaller than the "subcompact".

The of course we have those oddball (not really they are super common) duty guns with the 4" barrel and full grip that float somewhere between full size and compact.

Fact: they’re all great guns and so opinions, whether it’s Hickok in a video, the TTAG guys in a review, or yourself at the gun store, are going to be highly subjective. None of them are duds with shoddy workmanship and outright bad design. They have slightly different strengths but one person’s hand or recoil preferences could completely trump all of the supposed pros and cons.

Maybe with my particular thumbs or grip technique the Hellcat slide would be great in terms of grip. Maybe the Shield+ would be too bulky for my hand. Maybe.... etc.

No way to know which one is for you without handling them all at a show or store, or, ideally, renting and shooting them all at a range.

Or just buying whatever one is available at a price you deem fair, and putting it to work. Pretty sure none would be an out and out disappointment for the role they’re intended for, from the sound of the review.

Mosin77 said:

Fact: they’re all great guns and so opinions, whether it’s Hickok in a video, the TTAG guys in a review, or yourself at the gun store, are going to be highly subjective.

Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to preferences (which, as you say, are subjective almost by definition). I was interested in the rationale used for categorizing pistols by size, weight and configuration. Thanks for your input.

SwampWolf said:

I wasn't referring to preferences (which, as you say, are subjective almost by definition). I was interested in the rationale used for categorizing pistols by size, weight and configuration. Thanks for your input.

Click to expand...

Sorry I was just replying to the thread as a whole. I think sometimes we collectively try to read too much into reviews, or expect the reviewer to “be honest” and find some glaring issue. But sometimes a good gun is a good gun.

I sometimes watch videos to get an impression of what a certain gun is like. I find most reviews to be more hot air than informative. The presenters seem to be in love with their own voice and where ten words would be sufficient use a least a hundred or even more. I see absolutely no reason for a four or five minute lead- in before the video actually gets going to repeated views of the gun from ever angle. Most videos could be edited from twenty or more minuted down to five or six and present the information given just as well. I could go on about the bushy beards, tight t- shirts, tactical pants, etc. but then I would be guilty of excess words. Just tell us about the darn gun, shoot, show the targets, and give a quick, concise description of impressions and be done. No need to beat that bush into the ground.

To stay on track the P365 XL Romeo became my choice. There is a P365, a Hellcat, and Glock 43x(?), with a regular Shield in the family that I have shot but passed on each as a choice. I just preferred the XL. The new version of the Shield wasn’t out yet.

I subscribe to the belief that there never has been nor will be a perfect carry gun. I like to read or watch comparisons, but they never answer the most important question. How well can you shoot the carry gun of your choice in a real world firefight. I replaced my wonderful PPS M2 with a. Ruger Security 9 Compact because I wanted more capacity. So now I carry ten or fifteen rounds depending on concealment issues. Mostly I carry use the fifteen round magazine. The gun is not perfect, but is is damn good. For me the perfect carry gun is the one that you can save your life with because you have developed the expertise to prevail in a fight.

The May issue of the NRA publication American Rifleman which came in the mail today has a four page article on the S&W Shield Plus.

[Hickok45 said:

and Paul Harrel are all I watch for "gun vids".

Click to expand...

I would add LuckyGunner as well