New AR shooters at the range, malfunctions and pools of lube

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Ive never seen an AR15 malfunction because of too much lube. Ive seen the opposite many times though.

Here are some pictures of a rifle that I decided to see how long it would last without cleaning. I would add lubricant pretty much every time it went to the range but that's it. I finally broke down cleaned it after over 3000 rounds when I decided this rifle was going back to being my primary home defense weapon.. Much of that was running suppressed. Rifle was a Colt 6920 that was rebuilt using a BCM ELW barrel, Vltor A5 system, and a Geissele rail. I dont believe I had any malfunctions throughout the "test".

51126021982_032a0cbec9_o.jpg 20190917_125543 by chase, on Flickr

51126021837_bd1f1fb887_o.jpg 20190917_125558 by chase, on Flickr

51126021812_22c9ecef3b_o.jpg 20190917_125615 by chase, on Flickr

51127344890_5ed6cd9b20_o.jpg 20190917_130303 by chase, on Flickr

51127344940_b8c8e3bf30_o.jpg 20190917_130246 by chase, on Flickr

51127320175_9ecd43baaf_o.jpg 20190917_131940 by chase, on Flickr
 
wiscoaster said:
I think there are a bunch of how-to videos on YouTube . . . .
Click to expand...

HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD ^ ^ ^ ^
RIGHT THERE ! ! !

It's a shame that there's no good way
to pre-cull some of those off-the-wall
videos before the people seeking genuinely
helpful advice get slammed by poor
practices that some espouse.
I can't speak for the AR videos since I
don't watch any, but I've seen a bunch of
so-called reloading videos that made
me shout at the screen before I realized
nobody can hear me.
There's many other topics on yoofloob
that are as bad or worse
 
wiscoaster said:
So, I think the AR noobs' problems arise not so much from excess lubrication but from not knowing the tie-ins to cleaning and to breaking in.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree. Most AR noobs have new rifles, by definition, some can be a little tight, or need a little firing to get them 100% reliable. There also might be the issue of a poorly assembled AR... I've seen a few of those. Someone also mentioned crap magazines... I would +1 that, too.

Like some of you, I ran my little LRB/RRA build about 4000 rounds without cleaning, or very much lube for that matter. A drop or two of CLP before a range session... and off to the races. It was pretty nasty when I actually pulled it apart to clean it... my DI's would be very disappointed in me. Further, I took a bottom-end DPMS Oracle that had probably had about 200 rounds through it, and turned around and ran 1000 rounds through it in a weekend... no problems there, either. I was shooting in the desert, so it wasn't sopping wet, but it was a bit misty-eyed...

It's possible noobs hear 'run 'er WET!' and they get carried away with the lube. The type of lube also might fit into the equation. There is obviously a happy medium out there, even for a new rifle. I've never been one to run my AR's bone dry, however.
 
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Wet. Not dripping wet but BCG fully coated and greased in the appropriate places. Trigger always has a dab of grease and light coat of oil as well. My gun can get pretty gritty and foul and it seems not to have an issue with it. I mean I don't hose the entire thing down with lube and grease but all the moving parts are best kept coated in lubricant.

On the other hand my AR continues to run well even if it dries up a lil bit after burning off, but to prevent wear on critical parts I like to get it coated ASAP, I have heard accounts of AR's being more prone to problems, especially wear, if the guy is running it bone dry.....
 
After reading through the posts, I can't help but wonder what brand lube those folks are running ?

I tend to run my AR's mildly wet... but over the years of trying all sorts of lube. I have found some real stinkers.

Fire Clean, after 2 weeks would make me have to mortar the action open.

Frog Lube ... sucks IMHO.

FWIW, I currently use ALG Go Juice, it works very well for me in the PNW
 
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I don't lube anything I expect to work. Just the way it's always been for me. Lubes attract dirt and hold fouling, when they're dry the carbon falls away like dust.

I've gotten ridicule for my practices but my guns run. If I owned one that needed heavy lubrication to work, I'd fix it or just get rid of it.
 
bfoosh006 said:
After reading through the posts, I can't help but wonder what brand lube those folks are running ?

I tend to run my AR's mildly wet... but over the years of trying all sorts of lube. I have found some real stinkers.

Fire Clean, after 2 weeks would make me have to mortar the action open.

Frog Lube ... sucks IMHO.
Click to expand...

One of the best lubes I ever used was Mobile One motor oil. But apparently it's REALLY bad for your health when you breathe in the atomized vapors from shooting. For the most part I just buy Slip 2000 or some sort of CLP. Both work really well.
 
Obturation said:
I don't lube anything I expect to work. Just the way it's always been for me. Lubes attract dirt and hold fouling, when they're dry the carbon falls away like dust.

I've gotten ridicule for my practices but my guns run. If I owned one that needed heavy lubrication to work, I'd fix it or just get rid of it.
Click to expand...

When I work on machinery that hasn't seen lube, part of what's in the dirt and grime is metal particles that used to be parts of the machine. Little silvery and rusty bits ground finer than sand.

I've seen the same thing with used guns I've considered purchasing as well. With little metal flakes in the crevices of the gun from not being cleaned and lubed. Seems like I see that more with .22 autoloading pistols and rifles than anything else.

Now I'm not saying guns need heavy lube. Most I guns I shoot just need a thin smear of grease or oil on the parts that are actually moving or being moved against when the gun is cycled. A tiny bit of fine oil in the pivot points of triggers, hammers, sears, etc. every now and then is good too.

If anything seeps out of a gun after a clean and lube, I just rub it into the external metal parts of the gun then wipe it "dry". That helps protect against sweaty hands. Not much different than when I put a film of oil on bare cast iron machine surfaces, then rub it dry.
 
I think you got to know what area needs lube and what area needs thin oil. Obviously, the bolt surfaces that slide back and forth across the receiver and the bolt lugs into the barrel need a light layer of lube. The areas, such as extractor, ejector, or firing pin need thin oil. You don't want thick lube around the bolt face or near the chamber, or into the trigger and safety. If you lube/oil it like this and clean it every few hundred rounds, I bet the guns will last 10k + rounds. If you don't clean it, then it probably doesn't matter, as the build up of grime cause wear and you might as well keep it dry. But, some guns have tight tolerances and some don't. So, a loose tolerance gun may fire fine with a build up of gunk. I keep mine fairly wet, I'd rather have it jam than prematurely wear out, but never had a jam for too much lube or too dirty, so it probably doesn't matter. But, I am not shooting 200 + rounds in a session.
 
Obturation said:
I don't lube anything I expect to work. Just the way it's always been for me. Lubes attract dirt and hold fouling, when they're dry the carbon falls away like dust.

I've gotten ridicule for my practices but my guns run. If I owned one that needed heavy lubrication to work, I'd fix it or just get rid of it.
Click to expand...

Dang @Obturation ....you saved me some typing!

I think lots of lube is fine at the range or playing games, but I learned as a teenager, pushing through brush with my repeating shotguns, carrying them on my dirt bike, down dusty roads with the windows rolled down, etc., that lots of lube attracts all sort of foreign matter such a dust, dirt, sand, grass, powder fouling and unburned powder.
I don't mind if a firearm requires a little lube, but if they have to be "wet", I don't need 'em.

35W
 
A few weeks ago I helped a new shooter that had been given an AR by his son. I could see he was a little frustrated as the AR kept getting jammed after each shot. I offered help and found out that it was brand new and had the factory lube and had not been cleaned. I showed him how to field strip it and disassemble the bolt. I gave him some Hoppes #9, and than showed him where to lube it. He put it back together and he was a happy camper. The AR ran flawlessly afterwards. I told him to oil every piece of the bolt and than wipe it off. I believe that every firearm will run dry, wet or dirty. My brother's bushmaster had over 2000 rounds through it without cleaning it, all he would do is use a couple of drops of oil on the bolt.
 
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Have never understood the "wet ARF" group. WHY?

WHEN there are multiples of synthetic grease that stays put in the roughness of all of the parts. Does not sling. Does not attract dust and dirt.
 
chicharrones said:
When I work on machinery that hasn't seen lube, part of what's in the dirt and grime is metal particles that used to be parts of the machine. Little silvery and rusty bits ground finer than sand.

I've seen the same thing with used guns I've considered purchasing as well. With little metal flakes in the crevices of the gun from not being cleaned and lubed. Seems like I see that more with .22 autoloading pistols and rifles than anything else.

Now I'm not saying guns need heavy lube. Most I guns I shoot just need a thin smear of grease or oil on the parts that are actually moving or being moved against when the gun is cycled. A tiny bit of fine oil in the pivot points of triggers, hammers, sears, etc. every now and then is good too.

If anything seeps out of a gun after a clean and lube, I just rub it into the external metal parts of the gun then wipe it "dry". That helps protect against sweaty hands. Not much different than when I put a film of oil on bare cast iron machine surfaces, then rub it dry.
Click to expand...
I do pit a film of oil on some selective surfaces and on blued finishes for storage but that's it. I know what you mean about gunk becoming metallic looking from wear of parts. The thing I think about is how many guns I've personally worn out, none. So my guns that flat out must work generally are at the ready mostly dry, I won't say bone dry like brake clean dry but you couldn't squeegee a drop of any part. I generally call that "dry". A good buddy of mine let's his modern sporting rifles to swim in oil, more than I'd call "wet".
Glocks get a dab of grease where the barrel locks up in battery and I'll put a drop of oil on the slide rail and run it down with a qtip, then run that same stop down the other side, done.
On the dreaded AR , maybe 2-4 drops of oil for the whole gun, I consider that "dry". I'm no tactical operator and I don't shoot modern rifles for recreation , just shoot the thing a couple times a year to make sure it's all working and that's it. Might be different if I was shooting the thing monthly, i don't know and I hope I never find that out.
 
chicharrones said:
Speaking of this, I went shooting ARs last week with my ol' shootin' buddy who came to town.

He keeps his guns nearly dry, including his AR. I keep my AR wet, but not dripping out of the gun. Like the machines I work on, I hate seeing premature wear due to lack of lube, and since I don't shoot in sandy or cold environments, my guns get lube.

I can tell you, neither of our ARs malfunctioned and neither of them left puddles at the range. Not using crap magazines or testing newly added mods pretty much assured our ARs would run well.
Click to expand...
Bingo
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Dont think Ive ever seen an AR malf thanks to too much lube.

Magazines not fully seated are probably the #1 issue, followed by backwards hammer springs and other assembly problems or mismatched parts.
Click to expand...
Mags were pinned in this case thanks to NY. So seating wasn’t the issue.
 
dcloco said:
Have never understood the "wet ARF" group. WHY?
WHEN there are multiples of synthetic grease that stays put
Click to expand...
You shoot it wet to keep the fouling loose & wet *
It then wipes off clean w/ a paper towel (or ACU shirt tail depending on circumstance)
(Grease just becomes/collects as gooey-fouling crap that hides/build up in crevices)

*(Comes from a misspent youth in the BP community, I guess)



** If in dusty desert now... Hornaday 1-Shot (type) cleaner/drying lube is king.
Absolutely superb on gas-operated shotguns
 
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entropy said:
I store with a light coat of CLP, add more on the BCG to shoot, and run wet in warm weather. In cold weather, light coat of light lube. Wipe carbon off ASAP after.

I suspect your range rats that are having trouble with running them wet are forgetting the second part of Larry's video; CLEAN THEM! If you do not do so after running them wet, you will have malfunctions.
Click to expand...
Most likely.
 
C-grunt said:
Ive never seen an AR15 malfunction because of too much lube. Ive seen the opposite many times though.

Here are some pictures of a rifle that I decided to see how long it would last without cleaning. I would add lubricant pretty much every time it went to the range but that's it. I finally broke down cleaned it after over 3000 rounds when I decided this rifle was going back to being my primary home defense weapon.. Much of that was running suppressed. Rifle was a Colt 6920 that was rebuilt using a BCM ELW barrel, Vltor A5 system, and a Geissele rail. I dont believe I had any malfunctions throughout the "test".

View attachment 99337920190917_125543 by chase, on Flickr

View attachment 99338020190917_125558 by chase, on Flickr

View attachment 99338120190917_125615 by chase, on Flickr

View attachment 99338220190917_130303 by chase, on Flickr

View attachment 99338320190917_130246 by chase, on Flickr

View attachment 99338420190917_131940 by chase, on Flickr
Click to expand...
That’s way cleaner than than the ones I encountered in this post.
 
Obturation said:
I don't lube anything I expect to work. Just the way it's always been for me. Lubes attract dirt and hold fouling, when they're dry the carbon falls away like dust.

I've gotten ridicule for my practices but my guns run. If I owned one that needed heavy lubrication to work, I'd fix it or just get rid of it.
Click to expand...
It’s been that way for me too for a long time. I’m not above changing though, if evidence proves otherwise.
 
Anybody who says that the AR doesn't like to be wet, or needs meticulous maintenance schedule, isn't familiar with this lil nuance....

Here is an AR after having gone 30,000++ rounds with only 1 cleaning and a couple cursory wipes of the BCG. The key to keeping an AR running thousands of rounds without maintenance is quality lubricant.
IMG_20210420_001043.jpg






To make clear: This is not to say this is how you should maintain, or not maintain rather, your weapon. This just illustrates that they will go the long haul with very little maintenance and a healthy dose of lube. I would suspect this rifle probably wouldn't make it through a case and would have excessive wear and breakages if run dry....
 
DustyGmt said:
Anybody who says that the AR doesn't like to be wet, or needs meticulous maintenance schedule, isn't familiar with this lil nuance....

Here is an AR after having gone 30,000++ rounds with only 1 cleaning and a couple cursory wipes of the BCG. The key to keeping an AR running thousands of rounds without maintenance is quality lubricant.
View attachment 993424






To make clear: This is not to say this is how you should maintain, or not maintain rather, your weapon. This just illustrates that they will go the long haul with very little maintenance and a healthy dose of lube. I would suspect this rifle probably wouldn't make it through a case and would have excessive wear and breakages if run dry....
Click to expand...
I also think it’s important to point out that not all ARs are the same. The bottom of the barrel AR probably won’t perform as well as the top of the line or even the middle quality AR.
 
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Most new shooter AR malfs I have seen seem to be cheap mags. Weak spring hangs up the first few rounds. Puke.
Most AR enthusiasts pride themselves on buying only the best mags. Thats why I like my AKs. You can buy a milsurp mag out of a cardboard box at the pawn shop and not a second thought if it will run
 
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