That and being able to space out the 30,000 rounds over the course of 6 weeks, not being bum rushed by taliban
New AR shooters at the range, malfunctions and pools of lube
- Thread starter daniel craig
- Start date
- Status
That and being able to space out the 30,000 rounds over the course of 6 weeks, not being bum rushed by taliban
Charlie98
Member
There is a flip side to that... and one I've not had the chance to try.
Back in 1989, I was sent to Fort Irwin, the National Training Center, in Death Valley... dry, dusty, hot. I was determined to keep my rifle running no matter, even though we truck driver pukes weren't even issued blanks. I had done the usual prep... that is a light coat of CLP on the basic BCG parts and the trigger, within 4 days, the super-fine silt that made it into the cab of the truck locked the bolt carrier up solid. In fact... and don't tell anyone... but I had to drop the rifle on it's muzzle to get the carrier back forward so I could open the rifle to clean it. I was talking with one of the other guys, he said I had it all wrong... I should have flooded the rifle with CLP... 'run it wet.' I understand the theory, now, but have not had a chance to try it. The alternate would be to run it absolutely bone dry... and I don't really know how long it would have lasted that way, either.... that silt was evil stuff.
The 'RIW' system can work, but as was mentioned, I think it has to be done with the right lube... CLP or something similar. I think there are lubes out there, usually with tricky names, that don't do so well in that environment... but very well may work in other firearm applications simply because the demand is not so severe. All these years later, I still use CLP on my AR's in particular, and everything else that needs a light lubricant. I even use it to lube up my door hinges throughout the house... because I want my doors to be Tacticool...
DustyGmt
Member
Well, I suppose but I wouldn't necessarily consider BCM a top of the line, but when made to mil spec I would expect similar outcome for any mil spec AR. I know that when IV8888 does the "meltdown" videos the budget AR's fail at the same round count, give or take a few rounds.... nothing to necessarily hang your hat on but still, interesting.
I'm curious to know if any of the AR's IV8888 melts down in his full auto til failure meltdown vids would fare if he was hosing it down with lube intermittently throughout the test. It'd be interesting if they would go past the 900rd mark.
On my ARs when new I run them almost dripping wet, until they get broke in. Then I cut back on it to see what they like. Some like staying wet some I run bone dry. The tighter they are the less they can handle the extra lube, because the lube attracts & holds more dirt.
I'm old school and have been using BreakFree CLP since introduced to it by those happy go lucky smiling drill sergeants at boot camp during the Cold War Era. I have carried and shot M16A1 and M16A2 rifles (along with the M60) in all types of environments from the Arctic to tropical jungle to deserts and mountains. I always used BreakFree CLP and ran the weapons wet and never a problem in all those years. I served in Desert Storm and my last duty station was Ft Irwin/NTC. If anything will jam up a rifle, it is the super fine "moon dust" in the desert. Keep the rifles wet and they will function. And yes you still have to periodically clean/maintain them too.
CapnMac
Member
Mis-aligned gas tube to gas port, too.
someguy2800
Member
I lubed mine in 2019. Someday I might clean it too.
someguy2800
Member
Kind of like a baby, if you feed them too much they just give it back to you.
briansmithwins
Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2005
- Messages
- 4,631
Afraid I need to disagree. Wet and dirty runs better than dry and dirty. Even when excessively dirty wet internals are better than dry for functioning. Sure, do what you can to keep dirt out of the action by keeping dust covers closed and a mag inserted if possible but depending on dryness isn't a great way to assure continued function.
BSW
wally
Member
9 drops of CLP oil on mine. 1 drop on each of the 4 "sliding" surfaces at the front and rear of the bolt carrier and 1 drop on the cam pin.
The PCC blow-backs don't have a cam pin so they only get 8 drops
Even some manufacturer's say to run the guns "wet", I don't and they work great.
When i occasionally flush the trigger parts with brake parts cleaner, I'll put a drop of CLP on the engagement surfaces and pins afterwards.
The PCC blow-backs don't have a cam pin so they only get 8 drops
Even some manufacturer's say to run the guns "wet", I don't and they work great.
When i occasionally flush the trigger parts with brake parts cleaner, I'll put a drop of CLP on the engagement surfaces and pins afterwards.
earplug
Member
Gummed up means your lube is crap.
The only and I do mean the ONLY time that I ever had an issue with a M16 was in Arctic conditions. As a young and dumb private worried about weapon security, I kept my rifle in my sleeping bag with me and then went out during the night in sub zero temps for guard duty. Going from near body temperature to below zero did cause an issue. But that was the one and only time I ever had any problems keeping my M16A1 or A2 rifles well lubed with GI Issue BreakFree CLP.
Don't be afraid to run an AR wet, it won't hurt a thing on a properly built and properly maintained weapon.
Don't be afraid to run an AR wet, it won't hurt a thing on a properly built and properly maintained weapon.
Last edited:
That could have also been moisture from your body condensing on the rifle and freezing.
I read where in Korea they ran the M1 dry to keep it going in the extreme cold. You dont want anything that can gum up or attract water when it is 20 below zero. I am thinking WD40 for remedial purposes.
Diesel will gel and freeze up, happens to new pickups all the time, but that doesnt mean all diesel is crap. You just have to account for the cold and prepare.
DustyGmt
Member
And people add kero to there heating oil tanks when it hits -20° to prevent it from gumming up,, I wonder if a general cleaner like Hoppes #9 would double as a decent cold weather lubricant in a pinch, I mean I know it will but I'm thinking anything kerosene based should stay slick in very cold temps. I've used hoppes as a lubricant in a pinch, it doesn't last long but better than nothing.
Hoppes is what, like 98% Kerosene? Do other quality lubes utilize Kerosene as an ingredient?
Absolutely the condensation from body heat and then going outside in sub zero temps contributed to the M16 malfunctioning. That's why you put your rifle under your sleeping pad and sleeping bag instead of inside the bag with you in extreme cold environments.
d2wing
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,409
WD-40 will gum up eventually. Diesel comes in number 1 and number 2. If I remember right number 2 is used in summer and is cheaper. It freezes or gels. Number 1 is used in winter as it doesn't freeze. As far as freezing due to condensation, don't bring you gun indoors when it is very cold unless it can thoroughly warm up and dry. It is better for it to stay cold outside to prevent condensation when warm air hits it. Light synthetic or dry lubes may be ok. Most oils and greases are not. I have shot in sub zero temps with no problems except freezing my butt off.
Mosin Bubba
Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,936
Great graphic!
jdh
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,375
Gotta love the run it wet guys who use a full four ounce bottle of CLP on their ARs then whine about not being able to see through all the oil on their shooting glasses.
link to the TM: http://southtexasshooting.org/m16a2_army_tm_9_1005_319_10.pdf
Lubrication is section 0016.
Just to throw poo in the game, an AR treated with a Teflon based dry film lubricant will function perfectly and clean up is a snap. Can also lead to the heads of the run it wet crowd exploding. (Don’t throw a hand full of muck threw the open dust cover to prove a point or your armorer’s head may explode. )
link to the TM: http://southtexasshooting.org/m16a2_army_tm_9_1005_319_10.pdf
Lubrication is section 0016.
Just to throw poo in the game, an AR treated with a Teflon based dry film lubricant will function perfectly and clean up is a snap. Can also lead to the heads of the run it wet crowd exploding. (Don’t throw a hand full of muck threw the open dust cover to prove a point or your armorer’s head may explode. )
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Ignition Override
Member
No mention, it seems, of using several drops of Ballistol. This is also in the general CLP category. CLP is not a brand.
If regular cleaning plus using B keeps any quality AR running well, then it might keep my looser, very different type of imported 'global sport utility rifles' (-you know exactly what I mean-) working for a very long time.
If regular cleaning plus using B keeps any quality AR running well, then it might keep my looser, very different type of imported 'global sport utility rifles' (-you know exactly what I mean-) working for a very long time.
mcb
Member
Running them wet never seemed to attract that much more dust and dirt for me. All that lub is on the inside and for the most part not directly exposed to the outside world.
After a long day on the tractor plowing food plots last summer.
One nice thing about running them wet is in the wet. All that lub keeps repels and protect the parts from water.
Caught caught in a down poor last fall.
After a long day on the tractor plowing food plots last summer.
One nice thing about running them wet is in the wet. All that lub keeps repels and protect the parts from water.
Caught caught in a down poor last fall.
GoldieMI
Member
JBERs or Hood? lol
Ft McCoy, Wisconsin for Arctic/Cold Weather training. They did some Arctic/Cold Weather training for Reserve units there on occasion in the past. I was active duty assigned to a Reserve unit at the time.
- Status
