Neck Tension on 38 special

I'm having difficulties with neck tension on 38 special. It's sizing fine, and I'm putting barely any flare on it, but I'm still having issues with neck tension even after moving the taper crimp on my seating die down a full turn. Has anyone else had this issue? It's fine for revolvers, but when attempting to load into the mag of a lever gun it's pushing the bullet back into the case. Do I need to roll crimp these? I'd prefer not to, but if that's what is needed that's what I'll do.

4.6 gr HP38 behind a 158 FMJ

Bush Pilot said:

Why don't you want to roll crimp? That's the correct answer.

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Because the bullets I have don't have a cannelure and I don't want to have to find a new supplier... So because I'm lazy

joneb said:

If you pull the expander flare die plug what does it measure? I'm guessing the expander plug is not jiving with your bullet diameter. The expander plug should be at least .003" under the bullet diameter.

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I'm currently using a hornady PTX, but I'll measure it. I do have a separate flare die I can use if the PTX is causing the issue. I guess my bigger question was "Does 38 special have to be roll crimped, or is it something in my tooling causing the taper crimp to not be good enough. (specifically when referring to lever guns)"

Yes, all R-P headstamped brass, and I'm still getting the same issue with no flare (using a Hornady Full length sizing die). I backed and reset the taper crimp entirely, and it looks good to me and holds up to "average pressure" but if I lean on it, it still backs into the case.

mdi said:

FWIW; you may be putting too much crimp on your handloads. Too much taper crimp can actually loosen neck tension and bulge cases (in all my uses of a taper crimp die, semi-auto and revolver handloads, it is only enough to remove any flare in the case mouth). Try seating a bullet, with no crimp and check neck tension. Push on the bullet, against the bench or a block of wood, and see if it is loose.

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So I tried this, zero crimp and zero flare, and it actually seems to have solved it. I am guessing I am either not crimping accurately after flaring, or the process of flaring and then crimping is causing it to lose neck tension- If I try to flare and not crimp it loses it (which makes sense), and if I don't flare and crimp it does (which is over crimping). without flaring these it's more difficult to get the bullet started, but I'd rather have them work. I'll play with less flaring and less crimping and see if I can find a sweet spot

Jim Watson said:

It's not the flare, it is the straight expanded case below the flared case mouth.
As said, measure your expander, it should be substantially smaller than the bullet.

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Then why would it work with the flaring station removed? I would expect that if this was the case then removing the flare would have zero impact (because the expander had made the entire case too big).

Jim Watson said:

You have separate neck expander and mouth flare "stations"?

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I have a full length sizing die, then a PTX. If I remove the PTX entirely, the problem goes away. I'm going to try adding the actual case flare die I have instead of using the PTX and seeing if the problem still exists.