Odd or frustrating gun shop policies?

Walmart not selling ammo and a gun at the same time. All though employees who know me. Let that slide. And they walk the gun out and hand it to you out side. Dunhams does the hand off and trigger locks. My SW Victory they put the cable lock through the barrel. I was a little ticked off when i got home and noticed it. I think the cable is supposed to go through the mag well.

The local big box checks and carries our guns at the door, I do not like but I understand and follow. The clerk placed the chamber safety flag in the muzzle, I pointed out the “slight” mis-application here.

The response, “The flag has to go somewhere.”

That is the day that I lost any remaining respect for this store and its policies. It was no longer about true safety but exercising control and bureaucracy.

I can live w the silly but anyone can learn or acknowledge fault, to refuse to do so in a safety situation is intolerable.

Mark1964 said:

I've lived in two Midwestern states (one anti, one pro) and shot, competed and/or taught in several Midwestern states and a few Southern ones.
Nowhere I've been was it the norm to walk around in a retail store with an uncased gun in hand.
Seems to me it's good to know the social norms of where you're actually at ... regardless of where you're from.

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Mark, if you’d actually read my post, nowhere in there does it state that I was trying “to walk around in a retail store with a uncased gun in hand”. I had taken no more than 2 steps in, which is in a direct line to the counter the guy was hollering from, carrying the pistol in a way that anyone could see was safed (also in my post, he gave me “credit” for the way I carried it in); it was extended out so there was NO mistaking the condition it was in.

Also in my post, you might notice that the other 2 gun stores I carried it in to, in the same manner, simply asked, very non-chalantly, if they could just take a quick double-check...I guess there may be different “social norms” 6 or 8 blocks away.

Sam

It seems to me that "stupid rules" have two origins: there are the "stupid rules" which result from people being stupid in gun shops, and there are "stupid rules" that result from legal departments.

The latter is almost exclusively a problem of big retail chains like Bass Pro and Walmart. I don't bother trying to buy guns from those places as I inevitably get worked up about one thing or another.

The former, though, I tend to put up with, as there usually is a reason. My biggest routine annoyance is the "one shot per second" (or three seconds, or even five in one place I know of) range rules - but then, I cannot count the number of times I have seen some nut emptying a gun as rapidly as possible while hitting nothing but the floor, walls, and target hangers.

With regard to bringing guns into the shop: if it is a cased gun that will need to be inspected by an employee - a consignment gun, a CCW renewal, etc. - I think it is conscientious to unlock the case, turn it to the employee, and invite him to take the gun out himself. This always is appreciated - you know that these guys have all had guns pointed at them by customers - and so far has not resulted in any problems.

I had the same thing happen to me at Rural King. I got the feeling the guy that had to carry it to the door felt pretty ridiculous about it also.

snuzzo29 said:

Not frustrating but something I found funny was when I bought a stripped lower at a big box store. They had to walk me to the front of the store because it was a gun.

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SHOOT1SAM said:

Mark, if you’d actually read my post, nowhere in there does it state that I was trying “to walk around in a retail store with a uncased gun in hand”. I had taken no more than 2 steps in, which is in a direct line to the counter the guy was hollering from, carrying the pistol in a way that anyone could see was safed (also in my post, he gave me “credit” for the way I carried it in); it was extended out so there was NO mistaking the condition it was in.

Also in my post, you might notice that the other 2 gun stores I carried it in to, in the same manner, simply asked, very non-chalantly, if they could just take a quick double-check...I guess there may be different “social norms” 6 or 8 blocks away.

Sam

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OK. Great.
I've always taken 'em in cased. And I let the first counter person I see let 'em know what I've got, why it's there and that they're free to uncase it and check it should they wish.
Personally, I've never walked in the door of a place with bare blued or stainless steel in hand.
I figure their house, their rules and/or preferences when it comes to a firearm outside its case or leather.

.38 Special said:

.....With regard to bringing guns into the shop: if it is a cased gun that will need to be inspected by an employee - a consignment gun, a CCW renewal, etc. - I think it is conscientious to unlock the case, turn it to the employee, and invite him to take the gun out himself. This always is appreciated - you know that these guys have all had guns pointed at them by customers - and so far has not resulted in any problems.

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I'm a kitchen table dealer, so I don't get the volume of customers that a retail brick & mortar store does.......but I've had my fair share of customers bringing me a loaded gun to ship. That fair share is one. Customer was as surprised as I was when I racked the slide and a round flew out. "But I racked it!"......yeah, then you dropped the loaded magazine. Drop mag first, then rack until empty.

The only other live round in a firearm was a Bersa that was returned from their "factory service center" here in Texas. The gunsmith that fixed it shipped it back cocked, safety off and a round in the chamber.

All it takes is one "but its not loaded" gun to ruin my day, my business and result in serious injury or worse. So I have silly rules for myself to visually clear EVERY firearm I unbox when logging into my records. Doesn't matter if it a factory new gun or used.

You would be surprised how many customers want to show me their carry gun......because they think I haven't seen a Glock 19 or a Sig 365. Or the customer that pulled his homemade snap caps out of his pocket to see if they would fit in his new revolver. No, you are gonna do that at home, not here. And I know they aren't live. But loading a gun with anything at the dealers counter or table is beyond stupid.

The "Walk of Shame" that causes so much angst may seem silly to many, but it's the result of unsafe if not criminal acts. For a big box chain I'm sure those number in the hundreds a year. For the same reasons, every gun that leaves my dining room is in a box or case. Its not required by any law, but I'm aware that not every one of my neighbors is as comfortable looking at at rifle/shotgun/pistol as I am.

Mark1964 said:

OK. Great.
I've always taken 'em in cased. And I let the first counter person I see let 'em know what I've got, why it's there and that they're free to uncase it and check it should they wish.
Personally, I've never walked in the door of a place with bare blued or stainless steel in hand.
I figure their house, their rules and/or preferences when it comes to a firearm outside its case or leather.

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Mark, and if I’d had a case, don’tcha think I’da used it?? Again, the other 2 stores simply asked me if they could double-check, the SLIDE LOCKED, NO MAG, HANGING...UPSIDE DOWN , FROM MY LITTLE FINGER, BY THE TRIGGER GUARD, pistol...

Oh btw, “their rules and/or preferences” is something I completely agree with. However, there is nothing outside the shop (at least at that time) that required everything be cased and/or holstered.

I’m finished here.

Best regards,

Sam

George Dickel said:

I had the same thing happen to me at Rural King. I got the feeling the guy that had to carry it to the door felt pretty ridiculous about it also.

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Last time I bought a gun at RK, they had me pay and sent me on my way. No escort to the door "due to the pandemic"

Llew Taranau said:

There's a place near me that charges $200 -- yes, that's TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS -- if your 4473 is declined.....

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How do they enforce this if you're paying with cash? Do they demand the money before you can leave?

nightwolf1974 said:

How do they enforce this if you're paying with cash? Do they demand the money before you can leave?

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Dunno, I haven’t seen any reason to patronize them.

dogtown tom said:

"You would be surprised..."

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Sadly, I probably wouldn't. Between a lifetime as a paramedic and a lifetime as a shooter, I won't say that I have seen everything but I will say that I have seen enough. If the owner of the gun store has some seemingly foolish rule, I will assume that he has good reason for it. (I'm still not going to buy a gun from Walmart, though.)

I was in a Sportsman's Warehouse here in Northern California a couple of months ago and asked to see a pistol that was hanging on a peg behind the counter. The clerk retrieved it, cleared it, then held it in front of me. I reached for it and he said "no, sorry, you can't touch it." I literally burst out laughing and just walked out. I guess the demand has been so great that people are buying guns that they haven't even touched.

Could not even touch, that is a special kind of stupid.

We had a gun shop that didn't allow loaded weapons inside the store including concealed loaded weapons for which they were properly Posted 30.06 (back before there was 30.07). They did not last long.

Military bases have been silly about being armed on base for decades, at least since the Clinton years. Most will not allow you to bring guns on base; if you live on base you must store your firearms at a base armory, not in your home*. (Back in the 80's an Army captain company commander in Kansas went even farther, ordering his solders that they were not allowed to store guns in their owned or rented private homes off base. Yeah, that order was off base and eventually rescinded.

That said, some base or post exchanges do have gun counters. I have bought at two different Marine Corps Exchange gun counters. The procedures there are even more complex than a simple walk of shame. After the expected 4473 process and approval the buyer must sign several additional documents. One is an agreement to immediately drive directly off-base, no intermediate stops, from the exchange as soon as you leave the store (with, of course the walk of shame to the store exit). The other is an agreement to call both the base provost or security police office AND the exchange office before bringing the gun back on base to the store for any reason, and then follow up with the gate security guard when you do show up.

Being used to military ways, we don't question all that, we just follow the procedures.

Craig

* I truly enjoyed a visit to the US Special Operations Command Headquarters (USSOCOM HQ) several years ago, where almost every one in uniform on the installation was wearing a side arm. THAT is how to treat soldiers!

With all due respect, I just think walking in a public place, gun-in-hand is a very bad idea. I can see how people would react poorly to that situation. I also believe that not having the right container for our firearm is just another bad idea. For $10 you can solve this issue and have the firearm in a proper container or holster.

SHOOT1SAM said:

Mark, and if I’d had a case, don’tcha think I’da used it?? Again, the other 2 stores simply asked me if they could double-check, the SLIDE LOCKED, NO MAG, HANGING...UPSIDE DOWN , FROM MY LITTLE FINGER, BY THE TRIGGER GUARD, pistol...

Oh btw, “their rules and/or preferences” is something I completely agree with. However, there is nothing outside the shop (at least at that time) that required everything be cased and/or holstered.

I’m finished here.

Best regards,

Sam

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Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:

The most ridiculous I've heard of are gun stores and pawn that will still run 4473s on black powder guns.

The worse i've ran into was at bass pro a few weeks ago, a guy wanted to look at a gun and they asked for his ID. Not bad, right? But then holding his ID, they made him say his address to them so they can confirm he lives where the ID says he does. So they won't let you look at a gun if you are "unable to purchase" it in their eyes. The guy said his address wrong and then they got hard on him, telling him he can't buy one. (to be fair the guy did look a little crazy and off anyway, and wanted to look at the gun they happened to be holding when they walked up to him).
I don't thinking holding unto ID as a customer handles merchandize is bad (anti-theft policy) but the reason they were doing it is kinda frustrating.

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Rural King has a similar policy. Too many urban "cowboys" with fake IDs or such. One store had 10 guns end up in Chicago so now they can only use drivers licenses, no IDs.

And you have to hand over your drivers license just to see a gun. Even small towns are seeing an increase in thugs.

nightwolf1974 said:

How do they enforce this if you're paying with cash? Do they demand the money before you can leave?

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I doubt it is real

ColoradoMinuteMan said:

With all due respect, I just think walking in a public place, gun-in-hand is a very bad idea. I can see how people would react poorly to that situation. I also believe that not having the right container for our firearm is just another bad idea. For $10 you can solve this issue and have the firearm in a proper container or holster.

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And with all due respect ColoradoMinuteMan, your previous experience with the FPD notwithstanding, your stating that I was “...walking into a public place, gun-in-hand...” is a mischaracterization of what took place.

I could have walked in, literally gun-in-hand, WITH my finger on-the-trigger, pointing/aiming at the dude...but had the pistol, ‘covered up’, in a pair of my underwear, (uh, and...TRUST me; no one wants to see that!) and the guy would have been perfectly happy.

You & some others seem to not take notice of the fact that the other 2 shops I walked in to, didn’t bat-an-eye. I’ve never stated it was an ‘ideal’ situation, but the other 2 shops seemed to have understood that the only safer way for me to have taken the pistol in uncased, was to have brought it in disassembled. Had I been taking it in to a Big-5 or some other “sporting goods” store, rather than an actual “gun store”, I would have understood the guy’s reaction.

Sam

Insignificant bill said:

Now that would be embarrassing.

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To his credit, he played it off incredibly cool. I believe he shot himself in the upper thigh. He didn't really lose his cool, in fact he sort of acted like it was a perfect segue into the next segment of his demonstration. Something to the effect of "Now kids, this is why I'm telling you all this, this is the kind of thing that comes from fooling with a gun" and then he positioned himself like he was just going to continue on with the lesson and some fellow officers or staffers were like "no, no, no man. You're spraying arterial blood and need immediate attention, we need to get you out of here, you've just scarred these children for life". I dont know that they said that, but they definitely got him out of there quick.

I don't know what became of the officer but I guess the silver lining was that I'm pretty sure those kids got some good first hand experience on why you should not "fool wit guns".

I really like my LGS. No signs anywhere besides store hours. No corporate policy stuffiness, very laid back. Because I'm polite I always ask to dry fire before I do and if there is a gun I want to look at he hands it over and may get involved with another customer talking down the other end of the store and you don't feel like you're being ogled the whole time and are free to spend some time with it without pressure. Some here may see that as a big liability but it's about as old world as we can hope for in this day and age. It's also in east bumshoe back country so maybe it's easier to get away with here but its definitely nice. I purchased a gun from dicks sporting goods once, it's definitely a different vibe.

Howland937 said:

Except for extremely small LGS, everywhere I've ever purchased a gun I was escorted out the front door by someone who carried the gun for me.

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I've only ever shopped at one store which had this policy (my local Scheels) but they have since stopped doing this. I must admit though, I didn't know this was their policy the first time I bought a gun from there, so when the employee held on to the gun in the case and began walking with me, it was pretty awkward. What happens when we get to the front door? Do we hug?

Every single other time I've bought a gun I was handed the gun at the counter and free to leave on my own accord.

Craig_VA said:

Military bases have been silly about being armed on base for decades, at least since the Clinton years. Most will not allow you to bring guns on base; if you live on base you must store your firearms at a base armory, not in your home*. (Back in the 80's an Army captain company commander in Kansas went even farther, ordering his solders that they were not allowed to store guns in their owned or rented private homes off base. Yeah, that order was off base and eventually rescinded.

That said, some base or post exchanges do have gun counters. I have bought at two different Marine Corps Exchange gun counters. The procedures there are even more complex than a simple walk of shame. After the expected 4473 process and approval the buyer must sign several additional documents. One is an agreement to immediately drive directly off-base, no intermediate stops, from the exchange as soon as you leave the store (with, of course the walk of shame to the store exit). The other is an agreement to call both the base provost or security police office AND the exchange office before bringing the gun back on base to the store for any reason, and then follow up with the gate security guard when you do show up.

Being used to military ways, we don't question all that, we just follow the procedures.

Craig

* I truly enjoyed a visit to the US Special Operations Command Headquarters (USSOCOM HQ) several years ago, where almost every one in uniform on the installation was wearing a side arm. THAT is how to treat soldiers!

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As we've unfortunately found out a few times, almost completely unarmed military bases make great places for domestic terror attacks.

My perspective is that safety isn't best judged by consensus. A good example is helmet laws. It might be perfectly legal in Colorado to ride a motorcycle with no helmet, in shorts and flip flops. Most people around here drive around in beach attire. I believe it's a really bad idea. The fact that two stores thought it was perfectly acceptable, in my opinion doesn't make it a good idea. It just isn't worth the risks involved for me and I wouldn't fault a gun store for being a bit alarmed at the idea of someone walking through their store with a gun in their hand. I also just can't see good reason for doing it. It's a problem easily avoided by having a proper (and very inexpensive) container for your gun and it's hard for me to understand owning and transporting a firearm without an adequate container.

Also, unless you left a lot out of your original post, I don't see anything indicating that the store would somehow be ok with complete lack of regard for all other safety protocol. The underwear thing sounds like more of an attempt at humor, but I wasn't there. My perspective is that if I'm transporting a firearm, it's going to in a holster or container that protects it from damage, protects the trigger from being depressed and that meets any legal requirements of the method of transportation.

SHOOT1SAM said:

And with all due respect ColoradoMinuteMan, your previous experience with the FPD notwithstanding, your stating that I was “...walking into a public place, gun-in-hand...” is a mischaracterization of what took place.

I could have walked in, literally gun-in-hand, WITH my finger on-the-trigger, pointing/aiming at the dude...but had the pistol, ‘covered up’, in a pair of my underwear, (uh, and...TRUST me; no one wants to see that!) and the guy would have been perfectly happy.

You & some others seem to not take notice of the fact that the other 2 shops I walked in to, didn’t bat-an-eye. I’ve never stated it was an ‘ideal’ situation, but the other 2 shops seemed to have understood that the only safer way for me to have taken the pistol in uncased, was to have brought it in disassembled. Had I been taking it in to a Big-5 or some other “sporting goods” store, rather than an actual “gun store”, I would have understood the guy’s reaction.

Sam

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